bird id help please

[gregA]

Hi all can any one help id these two for me please, my efforts are winchat for no1 and wheatear for no2. Both taken today at Barking Bay (on the thames shorefront).




thanks
greg A

[Dogghound]

Yes both Correct.

1.Whinchat
2. Male Greenland leucorhoa Wheatear.

[gregA]

Thanks DogHound i must be improving

G
gregA

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Yes both Correct.

1.Whinchat
2. Male Greenland leucorhoa Wheatear.

1. Whinchat
2. Male Wheatear - subspecies identification is not possible from this single photo (but if you feel that it is feel free to explain why if you like).

[operanut1972]

Now then Roy,

Aren't you being a bit grumpy, surely this message should have been a PM if you felt that strongly? Butting out now.

Take it easy guys, no need for aggro!

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by operanut1972

Aren't you being a bit grumpy, surely this message should have been a PM if you felt that strongly? Butting out now.

No not really, differences of opinion in openly posted IDs are suitable for public debate.

If an ID which is so specific is posted then the person who posted that ID will usually have reasons that they feel justify the ID - and should be able to give these in support of their ID if challenged (otherwise anyone can post whatever ID they feel like in response to a query and no one will learn).

Dogghound is very experienced and knowledgeable, and it is possible that he will respond with information that I am unaware of that shows that he is correct. Until then I stand by my opinion that it is unsafe to assign this Wheatear to the Greenland race (leucorhoa) - it could just be a bright individual of the nominate race (oenanthe - the race that breeds in the UK) that just happened to be photographed in an upright posture.

[operanut1972]

Fair enough Roy,

Maybe I miss read the tenor of your post, it seemed a bit confrontational. I stand corrected, you are right to question the validity of the ID, seeing as it was so specific.

Like I said definitely butting out sorry for any offense

[RoyW]

It wasn't meant to be overly confrontational (perhaps I should have added "In my opinion" when I said that the subspecies could not be determined!).

[Shrike]

2. northern wheatear

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Shrike

2. northern wheatear

Both Dogghound and myself will agree with that - another name for the species that we usually refer to as just 'Wheatear' in the UK (and I'm pretty sure that you already know that!).