Bird ringing...Out dated.

FUDGEY · #1 (**permalink**) 19-08-2011, 09:14 AM

Last year things got a bit heated when I made a point that I thought ringing birds had reached a point that it was getting out dated and the data we got back from this practice was not worth the effort. I can not wait until we have the technology to do this with all birds, even small ones. I think that only one Cuckoo that had been ringed had been recovered in Africa before. Just look at this and in my opinion it just shows how much we can learn from satellite tagging. Incredible data. BBC Nature - Cuckoos' 5,000km journey tracked by satellite

KentYeti · #2 (**permalink**) 19-08-2011, 11:38 AM

That does indicate to me a far, far better method has been found than just sticking a ring on a birds leg and hoping someone, someday will find the bird again and report that fact.

Not sure what the bird thinks about having a permanent backpack though.

Presumably/hopefully such technlogy will get smaller and smaller to the point where it has no more impact on the bird than the ringing system.

Bryan

Adam Cheeseman · #3 (**permalink**) 19-08-2011, 02:49 PM

Without having read the article, how long does one of these 'backpacks' last? Guessing it isn't a life long thing.
I can't imagine that on a cost comparison it will ever be as cheap as ringing no matter how good the info acquired. Won't re-open the can of worms about ringing but I don't think it will ever be outdated, especially given the potential for all sorts of new info on behavioural movements due to climate and habitat changes.

Cheers,

Adam

Jackaroo · #4 (**permalink**) 19-08-2011, 03:47 PM

Have a look at this site if you haven't already.

Welcome to the BTO | BTO - British Trust for Ornithology

Elizabeth B · #5 (**permalink**) 19-08-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

Without having read the article, how long does one of these 'backpacks' last? Guessing it isn't a life long thing.
I can't imagine that on a cost comparison it will ever be as cheap as ringing no matter how good the info acquired. Won't re-open the can of worms about ringing but I don't think it will ever be outdated, especially given the potential for all sorts of new info on behavioural movements due to climate and habitat changes.

Cheers,

Adam

Well said, Adam! They've only tagged five birds so far - and as well as the cost of the "backpacks", there's the cost of monitoring the birds too.

Each bird has lots of sponsors though - I've just been looking at the link within the above URL: Tracking Cuckoos into Africa | BTO - British Trust for Ornithology - but how many of these people will continue their sponsorship?

John · #6 (**permalink**) 19-08-2011, 06:25 PM

I'm not sure how long they last but they transmit for 10 hours then shut down for 48 hours to allow the batteries to be charged up via solar power.

I'm not sure what info they got from this particular exercise due to the fact that all five Cuckoo's chose completely different routes to each other and also at the last destination there was 3,600 km between them.

There is a place for this technology but it will never cover the attention that ringing will bring such as the biometrics of the bird. Also don't forget you have to catch the bird to attach this technology so what is the difference between the two methods on that point.

John

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

Without having read the article, how long does one of these 'backpacks' last? Guessing it isn't a life long thing.
I can't imagine that on a cost comparison it will ever be as cheap as ringing no matter how good the info acquired. Won't re-open the can of worms about ringing but I don't think it will ever be outdated, especially given the potential for all sorts of new info on behavioural movements due to climate and habitat changes.

Cheers,

Adam

Tringa · #7 (**permalink**) 19-08-2011, 07:08 PM

I think you have a point worth discussing, Fudgey.

I do not know the percentage of ringed birds that are caught again or recovered when they are dead, but I suspect it is very small.

If I am correct then we must ask, as Fudgey has, is ringing worthwhile?

As catching birds for ringing can provide information about the incidence of various birds in various areas, then that may well be a good enough reason for continuing with ringing, but I think we do need to look to see if there are other ways of getting the information we want from ringing, in other ways.

However, until tracking devices become very cheap then I think ringing will continue for some time.

Dave

KentYeti · #8 (**permalink**) 20-08-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tringa

I think you have a point worth discussing, Fudgey.

I do not know the percentage of ringed birds that are caught again or recovered when they are dead, but I suspect it is very small.

If I am correct then we must ask, as Fudgey has, is ringing worthwhile?

As catching birds for ringing can provide information about the incidence of various birds in various areas, then that may well be a good enough reason for continuing with ringing, but I think we do need to look to see if there are other ways of getting the information we want from ringing, in other ways.

However, until tracking devices become very cheap then I think ringing will continue for some time.

Dave

Good post Dave.

Technology is moving at an incredible pace. And I suspect before too many years pass a device with an enormous life and ring shaped will emerge. The ring shape being a proven design that seems to cause minimal distrubance to the bird. When that stage is reached conventional ringing as per today's pratice will become a thing of the past.

Bryan

Adam Cheeseman · #9 (**permalink**) 20-08-2011, 10:37 AM

[quote=Tringa;815454I do not know the percentage of ringed birds that are caught again or recovered when they are dead, but I suspect it is very small.[/QUOTE]

From my experience with the local group, they do catch a lot of already ringed birds. Re-traps and controls. Couldn't tell you what the percentage is though.

Cheers,

Adam

Adam Cheeseman · #10 (**permalink**) 20-08-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KentYeti

Good post Dave.

Technology is moving at an incredible pace. And I suspect before too many years pass a device with an enormous life and ring shaped will emerge. The ring shape being a proven design that seems to cause minimal distrubance to the bird. When that stage is reached conventional ringing as per today's pratice will become a thing of the past.

Bryan

Technology will only be able to provide us with so much information. It won't be able to provide important info such as biometrics as John has mentioned.

Cheers,

Adam