Gull Chick for ID please

[Farplace]

We took this baby in a couple of days ago. Unfortunately it was put to sleep at the vets due to having multiple fractures. However, I wondered if anyone could ID it for me. It was a big chick - about the size of a small chicken. It had fallen off a roof (obviously from a nest). The people who found it kept it 3 days before trying to find help. If we'd have only got it sooner, our vet thought we might have had a chance......
Anyway, does anyone know what sort of Gull "Fraggle" was?

[Ferret]

Nesting on buildings and from the size it can only be Lesser Black-backed Gull Larus fuscus or Herring Gull Larus argentatus, without looking up some reference pictures w2hich are on my other computer I would say it is a Herring Gull but I am perfectly willing to be corrected, I will try and confirm later if nobody else gets there first, although I am sure they will.

Ferret

[Farplace]

Thank you. I was thinking herring gull.... but I hadnt thought about LBB gull.

[leon_heller]

It looks like a Herring Gull to me, at about three weeks. It probably got blown off a roof by the wind.

See my thread about my Herring Gull family for some photos of chick development.

[RKB]

Originally Posted by Farplace

We took this baby in a couple of days ago. Unfortunately it was put to sleep at the vets due to having multiple fractures. However, I wondered if anyone could ID it for me. It was a big chick - about the size of a small chicken. It had fallen off a roof (obviously from a nest). The people who found it kept it 3 days before trying to find help. If we'd have only got it sooner, our vet thought we might have had a chance......
Anyway, does anyone know what sort of Gull "Fraggle" was?

Out of interest, what were the fractures that required euthanasia after it had survived 3 days?

Not wishing to sound 'funny', but your tag line does say you're a "no kill animal sanctuary", so how come this one was killed? (not that I'm against it, just wondering what the injuries and policy were...). It seems to be standing and (presumably) after 3 days it was feeding ok..?

I agree it's either Herring or LBB, but I'm not sure you can confidently i.d. them at that age (though stand to be corrected).

[Farplace]

Originally Posted by RKB

Out of interest, what were the fractures that required euthanasia after it had survived 3 days?

Not wishing to sound 'funny', but your tag line does say you're a "no kill animal sanctuary", so how come this one was killed? (not that I'm against it, just wondering what the injuries and policy were...). It seems to be standing and (presumably) after 3 days it was feeding ok..?

One of it's feet was paralyzed, and there was a fracture in the pelvis on the same side. It had a fractured wing, and the break was on the joint, meaning that it would not heal well enough to allow flight. In addition it was very underweight with a prominant keel bone. It had been fed on salmon and kept in a box with 2 inches of water in it ("because it was a seagull and needed water.... we put some salt in it!") and so it was also cold and waterlogged.
Our policy is to do everything we can for every animal in our care. We only agree to have an animal put to sleep if the vet says there will be no quality of life. In this case, the vet felt that its injuries were such that even if it survived, it would live in pain and need daily pain killers. He suggested the kindest thing for this chick was to have it put to sleep.

[RKB]

Originally Posted by Farplace

One of it's feet was paralyzed, and there was a fracture in the pelvis on the same side. It had a fractured wing, and the break was on the joint, meaning that it would not heal well enough to allow flight. In addition it was very underweight with a prominant keel bone. It had been fed on salmon and kept in a box with 2 inches of water in it ("because it was a seagull and needed water.... we put some salt in it!") and so it was also cold and waterlogged.

None of those sound 'terminal' though - and waterlogging and being underweight are easily dealt with. The foot is misaligned but it is still being used to stand ok (going by the photo). Fractures are quickly healed in a growing chick, so the only issue would have been loss of flight requiring a life in captivity. But even a fracture on the wing joint is not necessarily 'end of flight' if it's treated - especially in a chick of this age. St Tiggywinkles successfully treats injuries of this kind. But I didn't see the x-rays so perhaps it was worse than it sounds (I do hope it was x-rayed?!).

Originally Posted by Farplace

Our policy is to do everything we can for every animal in our care.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to giving the necessary exit to injured wildlife, and I tend to prefer euthanasia to a captive life, but from what info is available the euthaniasia route does sound a bit rash for this gull considering your tag line and policy to do "everything you can". That might give a misleading impression of your policy to anyone bringing in casualties (it confused me).

Originally Posted by Farplace

We only agree to have an animal put to sleep if the vet says there will be no quality of life. In this case, the vet felt that its injuries were such that even if it survived, it would live in pain and need daily pain killers. He suggested the kindest thing for this chick was to have it put to sleep.

I don't know your vet, but my experience of them is that many much prefer euthanasia for wild animals, when they wouldn't have been so quick for domestic. I'm a little susprised by the mention of pain and painkillers - birds tend to show very low response to pain, and I've never heard of chronic pain being considered a reason for euthanasia in a bird before. I'd be very surprised if a flightless gull with a crooked leg didn't do very well in captivity, given the right environment (and several places do keep them). Especially one of this age. Once the fractures had healed (very quickly in a growing chick), surely there wouldn't be any chronic pain?

Sorry to bang on about all this and put you on the spot, but euthanasia on the basis of a 'quality of life' judgement is a kill policy, which is why I was confused about the tagline on your profile.

[Farplace]

Yes it was xrayed. Bottom line is that we accept our vets' opinion on such matters. Even St Tiggywinkles accepts their vets opinion on such matters. Annually we have around 4 animals put to sleep, on vets advice. Our vet is not one for killing animals (even wildlife) without reason.
The wing fracture was un-fixable, and we discussed amputation. The foot was paralysed, and the ankle joint was smashed. This was not a reason for euthanasia, but was a major concern. The deciding factor was the cracked pelvis.
The waterlogging and being underweight were only mentioned in passing - they were not a reason for euthaniasia. The bird was fed, dried and warmed here.

[RKB]

Fair do's.

btw, out of interest, how would you go about releasing hand-reared Swallows? I've just seen a rather worrying example of how not to do it on the telly.

[Farplace]

Originally Posted by RKB

Fair do's.

btw, out of interest, how would you go about releasing hand-reared Swallows? I've just seen a rather worrying example of how not to do it on the telly.

I have never had to do this - not with swallows anyway. We like to get baby birds flying well (in an aviary) before they are released. We also like to know they can find food for themselves When they are released, we like a few days of good weather, so they are not having to struggle to find food and shelter.
We like to release them, (once we are as sure as we can be that they are ready) where they came from - assuming it is safe.
With swallows - or indeed any wild creature that I have had very little experience with, I would ask advice from other wildlife rescues, or pass them on to places where they have the right experience.
Vallyforge (WAB member) has been really helpful in this respect.
I am currently hand rearing a nestling Woodpigeon. It's currently just pinning up and practicing wing-flapping, but not old enough for flying practice. Hopefully, when eventually its ready to go, it will be released in our wood.

I didnt see the swallows thing on telly. What did they do? Or rather, what didnt they do?