guess what we have just seen?

[fluff11]

have just been watching goldfinches on the sunflower feeder and we have seen our very first "cheveral"" goldfinch, if you not sure what these are then google cheveral goldfinch, basicly the red does not extend down under the beak, they are believed to throw white goldies offspring.
will see if i can get pic but not very good camera

[AshLee]

Interesting. It looks like all the Google images are of captive birds. Are they bread in captivity do you know? And might yours have escaped?

[htcdude]

It's a Goldfinch with no beard!



I was thinking the same it may be an escapee, couldn't find any images of wild birds like this, that's not to say they don't exist though.

Nige

[Kreacha]

How interesting - have never heard of these before.

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by AshLee

Interesting. It looks like all the Google images are of captive birds. Are they bread in captivity do you know? And might yours have escaped?

"Cheveral" Goldfinches are a form that is bred in captivity, so it is possible that this one has escaped from somewhere.
In a brief web search I haven't been able to find any websites giving details of the genetics though, and it may be that this is a form that results from a relatively simple mutation, so could show up in wild birds (some 'forms' of birds bred in captivity are the result of crosses between several different, often recessive, genetic mutation so these forms are generally unlikely to be seen in wild birds).

[fluff11]

Originally Posted by RoyW

"Cheveral" Goldfinches are a form that is bred in captivity, so it is possible that this one has escaped from somewhere.
In a brief web search I haven't been able to find any websites giving details of the genetics though, and it may be that this is a form that results from a relatively simple mutation, so could show up in wild birds (some 'forms' of birds bred in captivity are the result of crosses between several different, often recessive, genetic mutation so these forms are generally unlikely to be seen in wild birds).

The term "Cheveral" is used to describe the lack of pigmentation under the mandible usually in captive birds but is not a captive bred mutation.

The lack of pigmentation is most likely to be some form of pied mutation as in the example we have seen in the garden, which has a very small crescent shape of red underneath the white area directly beneath the beak. Although why the pied (white) markings are only in this area on a lot of examples is strange as you would expect some examples to show a lot more areas of extensive white often masking their usual markings elsewhere.

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by fluff11

The term "Cheveral" is used to describe the lack of pigmentation under the mandible usually in captive birds but is not a captive bred mutation.

I didn't say that 'cheveral' Goldfinches are always, or originally, a form bred in captivity. Regardless of the species, forms commonly found in captivity originate from natural mutations, or a combination of two or more such mutations (along with occasional cross species hybridisation), so most at least have the potential to occur in the wild.

I haven't found anything out about the genetics involved in this form, but it does not seem to be mentioned in any books on wild birds (so is presumably very rare if it does occur), and seems to be a relatively common form as a cage bird. I did find some old references to white throated Goldfinches (which were apparently once named as a species in their own right!) - no details to confirm that they were wild birds though.

[Muggsy]

I've seen them in the wild, when I say "them" I mean I've seen 2 in 50 years, we called them "pea throats" Rare as hens teeth I believe.
Much sort after by mule breeders as the chances of breeding a "clear" mule is supposed to be increased 10 fold by using one as a parent, I have no evidence if that is a fact or not though.