Has anyone seen this plumage before? (Cattle Egret)

John · #1 (**permalink**) 17-05-2011, 06:52 PM

ok, not a British bird but a bird you do see them in Britain. Whilst in Egypt we drove by a small pool at the side of the main road. There were a few Cattle Egret there, close enough for photography. When I got out of the car I couldn't help but notice this bird. The black patch is definitely plumage, not oil or anything like that.

The 2nd photo is of another bird that was in this particular group and if you look hard enough you will see where a similar patch is gradually decreasing as the breeding plumage is coming through.

Has anyone else seen this plumage in this species.

John

solus · #2 (**permalink**) 17-05-2011, 06:57 PM

Could it be a dye used for marking birds for identification purposes in some sort of study - I believe Bewick's swans (among others) in the UK have been dye-marked in the past on the head and/or neck?

John · #3 (**permalink**) 17-05-2011, 10:18 PM

Sorry Solus

I did explain that this was plumage. We were only a few feet away from them and when I put my scope up you could tell it was feather detail causing the black patch.

John

Quote:

Originally Posted by solus

Could it be a dye used for marking birds for identification purposes in some sort of study - I believe Bewick's swans (among others) in the UK have been dye-marked in the past on the head and/or neck?

Hobjob · #4 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 02:48 PM

Seen thousands of cattle egrets over the years.

Never anything like this though.

The reverse of leucism!
Have tried Bird Forum John?

Cowgirl · #5 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 03:03 PM

Sorry don't know squat re egrets, but just had to comment on photo.
The expression on the spotty egrets face just looks mortified

. Should put it on funny photos thread with a suitable caption. Sorry, can't think of one at the mo

RoyW · #6 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

I did explain that this was plumage. We were only a few feet away from them and when I put my scope up you could tell it was feather detail causing the black patch.

If it had been marked with coloured dye for some sort of study then it should look just like coloured plumage. You wouldn't necessarily be able to tell the difference however closely you look (in the same way that you can't tell that hair has been dyed - if it is a natural colour, roots aren't showing etc.). If the dying caused the plumage to become matted, even after it had dried, or caused other damage it would not be considered an acceptable form of marking for scientific studies.

If this egret had been colour dyed I would expect it to have also been ringed though (none visible), and as far as I am aware black is not a colour that is generally used for colour marking birds (more often it is pink or yellow).
I don't think that the second bird is outside normal variation, as some can show quite dark brown on the mantle when in breeding plumage, but I've never seen anything like the first one.

John · #7 (**permalink**) 18-05-2011, 05:22 PM

Yes I have David

I got a similar response from one poster saying it was a dye, which I have already said it wasn't.

John

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Seen thousands of cattle egrets over the years.

Never anything like this though.

The reverse of leucism!
Have tried Bird Forum John?

RoyW · #8 (**permalink**) 19-05-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

I got a similar response from one poster saying it was a dye, which I have already said it wasn't.

Sorry, but I really don't see how you can know that the colour was not due to the feathers being dyed (unless you had one of the feathers in your possesion and have had in analysed in a lab).

As I said, dyed feathers will generally look exactly like 'normal' feathers, only a different colour. I've seen your reply to the birdforum post and I don't think that it rules out artificial colouring.
Coloured racing pigeons

Wild-Woman · #9 (**permalink**) 19-05-2011, 04:53 PM

Looking at the shot John, there seems to be discarded litter. Is it possible that this egret has been on a rubbish tip where there is oil or the like that has got onto it somehow?

John · #10 (**permalink**) 19-05-2011, 05:05 PM

At a risk of repeating myself. We were very close to the birds anyway but when I put my scope to them we could see all the feather detail in minute detail.

Again I have said that if these feathers were dyed I doubt very much that the feathers at the far outer edge would be so uniform to be totally black and the feathers next to them to be totally white.

You try and spray, or paint, anything without a certain amount of spray over which would cause a feather to be possibly half black, half white or even splodges of black on white. None of this was evident, just either totally black feathers or totally white ones.

I was with a person that has lived in Egypt since 1963 and knows all the birds. She studied this bird through my scope as well and remarked also that this was plumage, not dye, not oil not anything other than plumage.

At this point (I'm sorry if I sound a little angry) but I would have expected people to realise that this bird had black feathers not dyed but plumage.

If you can't get your head around that then there is no point in debating if this plumage has been seen before.

John