Trafalgar Square Pigeons

[Blackdog]

Not sure where the best place for this thread should be, so here will do for starters;

It looks like Ken Livingstone is still having a go at his very own version of "ethnic cleansing".

BBC NEWS | England | London | Trafalgar's pigeons 'will starve'

I quite like pigeons, but can the more knowledgeable amongst you tell me, do they present any kind of health hazard, apart from the obvious pigeon droppings everywhere?

[werdnal]

They do carry several diseases that can be harmful to humans including salmonella, TB and ornithosis (a type of mild pneumonia). My hubby keeps pigeons and doves, and even in controlled domestic conditions, the droppings and bloom (the dust emitted from their feathers - watch when you next see a pigeon shake itself) carry a risk of infection and can also cause allergic reactions in some.

When he cleans out their shed, he always wears a full disposable boiler suit, hood and face mask - perhaps a little overkill but even with our relatively "clean", well fed domestic birds, its not worth taking the risk.

They also carry diseases transmittable to other birds, and in close knit communities, interbreeding can result in sickly deformed birds who are even more susceptible to disease, and so the cycle continues.

An adult breeding pair can produce a clutch of 2 eggs 20 days after their previous ones hatch. Therefore on average 9 broods of 2 per year. All pigeons need for their ideal conditions are a regular supply of food and a suitable nesting site, and they will breed all year round, regardless of the temperature and weather conditions.

I'm all for keeping the flocks in Trafalgar Square and other towns, but feel they need to be controlled in the most humane and effective way possible. If my hubby didn't take away eggs regularly, we'd be overrun with them here!

[aeshna5]

I think our towns would be duller without them, though I accept they can become a nuisance + can carry various pathogens (what creature doesn't?); some are very attractive while others look pretty awful with manky plumage + deformed feet.

These birds are derived from domesticated Rock Doves which were kept for food + as said above above are prodigious breeders. Despite all manner of controls these birds continue to prosper. Some years ago I did a book review on a very heavy (scientific) tome on Feral Pigeons for a local natural history society + this said that the only effective way to reduce Feral Pigeons was by removing the food source and the roost sites. Culling adult birds has no effect at all if the food/ roost sites aren't reduced as the birds reproductive capabilities allow rapid replacement.

[svenrufus]

I'm interested in this as well. I have heard lots about how there are diseases that pigeons carry that are communicable to humans, but so far, (and I have just done another quick Google to check again) I am unaware of any cases of actual transmission of disease from wild birds (as opposed to domestic) to humans.

I'd love a more authoritative view on this, but I believe that if there is a risk of disease, it is a theoretical one, not an actual one. If that is the case there is not an argument on Human H+S grounds for controlling urban pigeons.

Transfer of disease to other wild birds I know nothing about, but if this happens, the question I would ask is 'Is the disease(s) one which is not otherwise moving through the wild bird population?'. Unless the pigeons are actually introducing anything new into the wild bird population, there is no case again.

From the pigeons own point of view, there seem to be too many of them at times, and the general health of the flock gets low as competition gets too high through distorting population levels to an extreme. Whether this is through disease spreading, lack of food, or just a more in your face view of the perils of being a wild animal I don't know. Mabe it is just birds that would have died in the wild, being allowed to live longer through easy access to food.

All that said, I'm backing Ken on this one. I don't have an issue with pigeons in 'normal' numbers, but the density that we urbanites have to put up with is beyond the pale at times. There are parts of my town where I need to put up an umbrella even on a clear day or run the gauntlet of a shower of pigeon detritus (poo, twigs, feathers, chick carcasses - I was missed by a dead chick once by about a foot, and pooed on more than I care to remember). I suppose the peregrines nesting on Sussex Heights towwer block might disagree with me though .

To my mind, the feeding of wild birds at such an elevated population density is wasteful - of food, and of the land used to grow it on. The loons that go to nearby open spaces and scatter whole loaves of bread for the pigeons are a public nuisance and should be ASBO'd (although I don't approve of ASBO's).

A few years ago Nottingham City Council tried Harris Hawks to deter pigeons (successfully)from the Market Square - what a furore! Councillors had to resign for fear of their safety from the animal rights brigade, performance artists using pigeons as part of their 'installations' decrying the philistinism of the council, Wildlife Trust swamped with pleas for help....

So, I'm not aware of any ood health or wildlife reasons to ban feeding, but I think it is a good thing to stop it as an anti social pursuit.

[aeshna5]

The one obvious H+S issue concerning Feral Pigeons isn't a disease issue, but accumulations of droppings under bridges over pathways etc, can become notoriously slippery when wet, causing potential problems with people having accidents, particularly frail elderly people who may break bones, etc.

[wyevilla]

Couldn't they be trapped and sent to France where they would in all likelihood be treated as a delicacy? (see thread on Stone Traps in The Treehouse).

[Susie]

I like pigeons, but Trafalgar Square is a far more pleasant place to be when it is pigeon free.

[nightshade]

Wonderful thing the Feral pigeon they carry a type of Salmonella,
Tuberculosis,Campolybacter,Ornithosis,Syphalis and Gonarrea
along with a large selection of mites
It always amazes me that people encourage and feed them

[Blackdog]

With all those diseases, I'm suprised they haven't been renamed CHAVS

[Paul mabbott]

You never lived in London when there were millions of feral pigeons, I take it?
I think it's rather callous to use the term 'ethnic cleansing', which has a very real and unpleasant meaning, in connection with pest control.

Originally Posted by Blackdog

Not sure where the best place for this thread should be, so here
will do for starters;

It looks like Ken Livingstone is still having a go at his very own version of "ethnic cleansing".

BBC NEWS | England | London | Trafalgar's pigeons 'will starve'

I quite like pigeons, but can the more knowledgeable amongst you tell me, do they present any kind of health hazard, apart from the obvious pigeon droppings everywhere?