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| 1 | 2 | » Stats |
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Top Poster: glsammy (15,069) | | Welcome to our newest member, CBRAD | |  | | 
16-04-2011, 05:38 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London
Posts: 4,913
| | | When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK From the internet I gather that the first Willow Tit was recognised as a distinct species in 1897. I am trying to find out how and where this happened. I have found a reference to a study of skins of birds at the British Museum. But today I was speaking to someone who named a woodland in Middlesex where it was first realised that this species was present in the UK.
These seem to be two very different stories. But maybe the skins themselves originated in this wood. Or maybe after the first comparison of skins, there was some fieldwork involved. Does anyone have any further information to add?
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16-04-2011, 06:19 PM
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| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Looking up in the "Birds of England" by Brown + Grice it said they were first described in 1900 following the discovery of skins in 1897 taken in Hampstead amongst some Marsh Tits. Up to then all "brown" tits were classed as Marsh + some observers of the time refused to recognise 2 species.
The first full account of Willow Tit's distribution in the UK wasn't published in 1937 ( Witherby + Nicholson)
Certainly no Willow tits in London now + though Marsh Tits hang on in a few places around London I don't think you'll find any in Hampstead now.
Possibly another book for your list Deb! | 
16-04-2011, 06:40 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Saddleworth
Posts: 4,134
| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Hi Debs, interesting this one, thanks for raising,
Witherbys handbook vol 1 mentions the british race as Parus atricapillus kleinschmidti as first being ID'd as diff from marsh at Finchley wood in 1900.
Colin Harrison/David reid-henry's history of birds of britain regards it as Parus montanus, as we know it now, and just says it wasnt recognised until 1897, as you mention. Marsh tit first mentoned in 1678.
the New Atlas mentions the british race, kleinschmidti, first described in 1900 from a bird taken near Finchley in 1897. until then, it was thought that only Marsh tits were native to britain.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Ken
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16-04-2011, 06:52 PM
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| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Thank you both very much.  I will consult some old maps now to work out where these areas extended to at that time. The suggested location according to the conversation that I had fits quite well.
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16-04-2011, 07:19 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London/ Essex/ Herts border.
Posts: 2,757
| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Wikipedia sums up the discovery of Willow Tit in the UK quite well - but under the Marsh Tit entry!
Willow Tit was recognised and named on the continent in 1827, but UK ornithologists were slow on the uptake. It was too Germans who found the first UK Willow Tit skins mislabelled as Marsh Tits in the British Museum collection in 1897, one of them was Otto Kleinschmidt whose name was given to the British Race. Two Willow Tits were collected at Coalfall Woods, Finchley in the same year (separate from the skins found in the British Museum). | 
17-04-2011, 07:00 AM
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| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK No such wood Roy. 
I assume Wiki means Coldfall Wood, but you have to question the credibility of this information.
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17-04-2011, 08:19 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London/ Essex/ Herts border.
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| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb London No such wood Roy. 
I assume Wiki means Coldfall Wood, but you have to question the credibility of this information. | The Coalfall Wood name has been used elsewhere (eg. "Birds Brittanica" and "The Historic Atlas of Breeding Birds in Britain and Ireland") - I would never quote Wikipedia without finding the same information elsewhere!  
I've now checked a few more books, and "The Birds of the London Area", originally published in 1957, does give the location as Coldfall Wood: Quote: |
It was not known that the willow tit occurred in this country until 1897, when two specimens obtained at Hampstead were found among skins of marsh tits at the British Museum. In the same year Tring Museum recieved two birds killed at Coldfall Wood, Finchley, and one of these was taken as the type specimen when the British sub-species (p.a. kleinschmidti) was described.
| It seems that at some point the wood was misnamed in the original sources (unless of course it was originally known as Coalfall Wood and the name has changed?). I'll see what it says in W.E. Cleggs "Birds of Middlesex" when I get my copy back. | 
17-04-2011, 01:31 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London/ Essex/ Herts border.
Posts: 2,757
| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Glegg also gives the location as Coldfall woods in his 1935 publication. I should have checked the earlier references first, the error seems to have crept in, and been repeated, after 1957! | 
17-04-2011, 01:45 PM
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| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Very interesting. Thanks Roy.
Although the woodland I am curious about and Coldfall are less than 2 km apart, they have vastly differing histories.
Roy, is that reference Glegg (1935) A history of the birds of Middlesex, Witherby, London? I'm interested in the history of the area and how it relates to the flora/fauna so might add that one to the book list.
Thanks.
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17-04-2011, 02:13 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: London/ Essex/ Herts border.
Posts: 2,757
| | | Re: When the first Willow Tit was recognised in the UK Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb London Roy, is that reference Glegg (1935) A history of the birds of Middlesex, Witherby, London? | That's the one.
There is also an earlier (and much slimmer) avifauna for Middlesex, "Birds of Middlesex" by JE Harting, - published in 1866 so it doesn't include any reference to Willow Tit.
Both are quite interesting reads, although it sometimes may not be obvious what species is being referred to as in some cases both the English and scientific names have changed (and in other the birds referred to are now know not to be separate species). |  | | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
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