Willow Tit gender please

[shenk1]

Can anyone give a gender I.d. from this undignified pic of a Willow Tit?



On second thoughts with a moustache like that it must be a male





shenk1

[Dogghound]

Its a Marsh tit.

You would need wing length to sex it.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Beat me to it. It's a Marsh Tit.

Cheers,

Adam

[shenk1]

If its a Marsh then its new to the garden as we've always had Willows

Cheers, shenk1

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by shenk1

If its a Marsh then its new to the garden as we've always had Willows

Cheers, shenk1

How do you know they were Willows? You thought this one was too! Maybe you didn't ID them correctly (though you may well be right)- they are one of the trickier pairs to identify.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by shenk1

This picture shows a feature which is often not easy to see in photo's and is a good way to tell the two apart. If you look at the feather tips you can see the bases of two feather tips visible on each side of the tail which shows its a marsh. In willow tits you would see a more stepped pattern showing four feather tips on each side. Although you cant sex it from the cloaca here.

[shenk1]

Lighter wing feather half way along the wing, voice - tze-tze-tze,.

Had em coming for 8 years but always hard to take pics of but I'll have a search and see if I've some decent ones to compare it with.

There were 2 in the garden so it was definitely a pair.

shenk1 (busy searching old pics to see if he has been saying the wrong bird for years)

[shenk1]

These are some of the "better" shots I've had - in other words ones that you can tell what it is (can't wait to get my new lense - this ones rubbish)



More recent -





Notice they are only tagged as "Tit" now

Cheers,shenk1

PS looking through the pics some seem to have a bigger chin patch than others - would this mark the two apart or not?

[John B (NTS)]

Recent research points to nearly all of the diagnostic visual clues to Marsh/Willow identification being unreliable. If in doubt (which seems as if it should be most of the time) listen for the call (which is reliable).

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by John B (NTS)

Recent research points to nearly all of the diagnostic visual clues to Marsh/Willow identification being unreliable. If in doubt (which seems as if it should be most of the time) listen for the call (which is reliable).

What research is this? They are relatively easy to seperate in the field or in the hand from visual characteristics. There are several criteria to seperate them both which work fine with or without the call.