Leg Rings ?

[Morph]

Has anyone ever reported a ring, I was wondering if this is the norm......
Last week a client (knowing I was into birding) handed me a leg ring he'd found on a dead bird in his back garden in mid december. I reported it to the BTO who have forwarded it to the scheme that fitted it. Yesterday I chased it up and today have been told that the Ring was fitted at Spurn Head and that they only have a small office and it would take 6-8 weeks before they could get the report back to me.

[solus]

The time taken between reporting a ring/colour ring(s) and receiving a response can vary enormously from a couple of weeks through several months to (occasionally) never in my (albeit rather limited) experience.

I have only ever reported two BTO metal rings and they were from dead birds and the responses were fairly quick. However, I have reported a number of colour ringed birds, mostly waders and geese, and I think the response time there varies according to who did the colour marking in the first place and how busy they are: the Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust are usually pretty good, as are the BTO and those they forward the details on to. To be fair, things are much easier since the advent of e-mail both for reporting and receiving back info on the project and other sightings of the colour ringed/neck collared birds.

For me, after reporting a sighting of a colour-ringed bird it always feels a bit like opening a present when I receive the details back of where/when/age/sex and other sightings of "my" bird!

[rossy]

ok solus, i found a large yellow ring at the side of a resevoir, and handed it in to a rspb member, never seen the chap since, would you have any idea, from the colour of what it was from, rossy.

[RoyW]

Hearing back after sending in details of recovered rings or marked birds seen in the field can sometimes take a while, but in my experience you will hear back eventually (if you don't, I would probably put it down to communications being 'misplaced' somehow, because it is important for all ringers to encourage reporting). The time that it takes for a reply generally comes down to how busy the original ringers are, and how organised they are with their 'paperwork'!

Rossy: I don't think that you'll get any information about your yellow ring without a ring number I'm afraid. If it was a plain ring then the combination of colours, including which leg they were on, is likely to be important - and at least some idea of the species would almost certainly be needed first.

[Morph]

It reminds me of a sign I once saw in a shop, "Customers are the reason for our work, not a hinderance to it!!"
6-8 weeks! but seriously how long does it take to check thru a simple database and run off a quick e-mail? The one and ONLY reason these schemes put rings on birds is to (they say) monitor the birds. I don't understand why it should take so long when they actually get feedback from all that ringing? If it was me it would be my 1st priority. OK they may be busy and most are volunteers but they dont seem to have trouble finding time to get out there with their mist nets every migration time to see what goodies they can handle.

[rossy]

yes forgot to mention roy, the ring did have a number on, rossy.

[RKB]

Originally Posted by Morph

It reminds me of a sign I once saw in a shop, "Customers are the reason for our work, not a hinderance to it!!"
6-8 weeks! but seriously how long does it take to check thru a simple database and run off a quick e-mail?

You are not the customer - birds are. As long as the info gets through to the administrator, that is the main thing. While it is polite and reasonable and everyone should do their utmost to inform the finder of the results, to be frank the info wont mean a lot to them. The important place for the info to reach is the admin, where it will make sense and add value. Of course, it's nice to know and be rewarded for your effort, but please remember that almost everyone involved is volunteering, and at the end of the day it's about bird research and every ring reported is contributing - even if you hear nothing back for whatever reason (as outlined by RoyW). The system is a bit creaky and doesn't work perfectly, because there is a large volunteer element, but it's a miracle of dedication and selflessness on the part of ringers that it works at all. So if you don't hear back, please just be happy with the satisfaction of knowing that you've helped bird conservation in a small way.

Other reasons that there may be breaks in the chain of communication is that people retire, get ill or die. Most ringers are middle-aged or older. The BTO also only have a small team (because they are not rich like other charities), so there is only so much they can do, which creates a backlog.

Rossy - only the metal BTO rings have unique numbers. Darvic or coloured rings are extra add-ons, and only have a code to identify a bird where you know the species - and sometimes these codes are replicated across countries or schemes. So without a species or a metal ring number, there's no way of knowing whether your ring came from a Mute Swan or a Cormorant or a Grey Heron. Nobody can help that.

[Ferret]

Morph, the BTO has checked its data base and provided you with the information that it has on this ring at the moment and will no doubt update you when it has more information.
It may help you if you understand the ringing process a little better.
I am not a ringer myself but I do sometimes help a friend who is and along with giving moral support and helping him with erecting and dismantling nets and other manual jobs (I don’t handle birds as I am not licensed to) I help keep the log book, this is a paper based note book as this is the safest way of recording the information in the field, a note book does not run out of power, become corrupted or just break as a digital device could.
The process starts with the ringer purchasing strings of numbered metal ring's such as the one you recovered, these are only sold to registered ringers and a record of who holds the rings is kept by the BTO
The ringer then keeps a record in the log book about what he does with each ring. We record quite a lot of information about each bird starting obviously with the species, its age (if this can be worked out), its sex, several pieces of information about the progress of any moult, the amount of fat it is carrying and its muscle condition, its weight and its wing length and during the breeding season the presence and condition of a brood patch in females and a cloacal protuberance in males. For some species there may be additional information that needs to be collected.
At a later date the ringer then transfers this information to a record sheet which is then sent to the BTO and added to the master data base. This can take a little time for several reasons, first most ringers also have full time jobs and a family who not having seen there partner/parent for a large amount of his spare time, as they have been out ringing, are not now best pleased when they now lock themselves away in order to transfer the information collected from the log onto the record sheets, so most ringers only tackle this job once a month or so, and then life gets in the way and it gets put off for a while, after all entering anything from fifty to several hundred records is no five minute job and once collected the information does not go away unlike the birds, these will only be about for a short time especially during migration and you cannot collect there potential information if you are sat at home entering records so it gets left until you cannot be out ringing due to bad weather etc. Most ringers use a computer for this job but I believe some still use paper records.
When this information reaches the BTO it then has to be incorporated onto the main data base which if the correct and latest program has been used probably does not take to long, but if older programs or even paper records have been submitted this may not be a quick process.
As you say your self in one of your posts “The one and ONLY reason these schemes put rings on birds is to (they say) monitor the birds”. Quite correct, not to provide information on individual birds to members of the public who return rings, this is done where possible as an encouragement to send in rings found only and for the reasons mentioned above the BTO can only give you the information it has and this it has done, after all what other information are you expecting? Apart from the actual date of the ringing, the species (which I presume you already now) and its age at the time of ringing, and if you are extremely lucky a control when the bird was re-caught by another ringer. There is unlikely to be much else, and I suspect it was ringed within the last six months which is why the BTO do not have the rest of the information at the moment.
The real value of this information is long term helping us to understand things like life span, mortality rate, migration routs, wintering grounds, important feeding areas, etc.
From this information we will have a better idea of where to focus limited resources.

I hope this helps, Ferret

[Hobjob]

Good reply Ferret.

Ringers even have to buy their own rings!! and special pliers, books, scales. I am not sure who pays for their training?

One ringer of my acquaintance doesn't even own a computer to help. They are an amazing bunch of very dedicated volunteers who are usually out in all weathers at times when most of us a abed!

Over the years they have added to the knowledge base or scientific ornithology, especially of migration, in extraordinary ways; largely unsung. Thanks to them all

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Ringers even have to buy their own rings!! and special pliers, books, scales. I am not sure who pays for their training?

One ringer of my acquaintance doesn't even own a computer to help. They are an amazing bunch of very dedicated volunteers who are usually out in all weathers at times when most of us a abed!

Over the years they have added to the knowledge base or scientific ornithology, especially of migration, in extraordinary ways; largely unsung. Thanks to them all

Any costs incurred during training almost certainly will be met by the individual. In some circumstances funding for some time and equipment may be provided (eg. grants for specific studies, or donations to bird observatories and ringing groups from members of the public), but these will generally be exceptions to the rule.
Of course, the role played by members of the public who report ringed birds that they see/find shouldn't be overlooked. Ringers rely on the good will of such people to increase the return that they get from ringing efforts. Ideally I'm sure that they would all like to acknowledge receipt of reports by sending details back by return of post. In reality it's not always as simple as that - as has already been mentioned.
Don't let the delay put you off reporting ringed birds in the future - I am sure that you will receive the details of this one eventually, and it sometimes is much quicker!