Redpoll Questions

[Xurek]

Evening all,

I have some questions I was hoping you could help me with regarding Redpolls.

I have three guide books in front of me, BTO Field Guide, RSPB Handbook and Collins Bird Guide. From what I understand there are 3 species in our corner of the world, Lesser, Common and Arctic. Lesser and Common both appear common in the UK. Two guides are telling me the Lesser and Common are spread widely over the UK all year round and the other that Common is only a winter visitor to the East Coast which is more accurate? Also what exactly is a Mealy Redpoll as I can't seem to see it in the guides? Lastly what species am I then most likely to have in my garden on the East Coast of N.Ireland. At least three lovely little birds entertaining me on Sunday afternoon.

These are some photos that I took, are these all Lesser Redpolls?



I am guess the first two are males and the third is a female due to the duller more orange cap, but they all look quite different elsewhere.

Another amatuer question, thanks for your time!

[Jonners]

A very good question.... and one that I was going to pose too. Well done for asking (now to wait, with bated breath).

PS Here's mine:

[John B (NTS)]

The Mealy and the Common Redpoll are one and the same. Lessers are commonest in the UK, breeding in Scotland and northern England. They can be seen all year round but they have declined in numbers and are nor red listers. The Mealy/Common is a winter visitor mainly to the east coast but they do spread westward.

Your garden visitors are probably lessers. It has a been a good winter for them.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by Xurek

Two guides are telling me the Lesser and Common are spread widlet over the UK all year round and the other that Common is only a winter visitor to the East Coast which is more accurate?

Common redpoll are mainly a winter visitor and dont breed here. Lesser are the british race of common and are resident breeders through most of Britain. Arctic are accidental migrants.

Originally Posted by Xurek

Also what exactly is a Mealy Redpoll as I can't seem to see it in the guides?

Another name for common redpoll.

Originally Posted by Xurek

Lastly what species am I then most likely to have in my garden on the East Coast of N.Ireland. At least three lovely little birds entertaining me on Sunday afternoon.

These are some photos that I took, are these all Lesser Redpolls?



I am guess the first two are males and the third is a female due to the duller more orange cap, but they all look quite different elsewhere.

Your most likely to get lesser redpoll. Your birds are -
1. likely Lesser Redpoll, although I would want to see the rump and under tail coverts to be sure. (male type).
2. Lesser redpoll (not sure you can sex it from here, female looking)
3. Lesser redpoll (female type)

Are these recent?

[Xurek]

Thanks so much for replies so far.

Yes Dogghound these photos were taken yesterday afternoon.

[aeshna5]

Lesser Redpoll, the British breeding form, is now generally accepted as a separate species now from Common Redpoll, though bizarrely the recent updated Collins Bird Guide still treats them as sub-species. The BTO lists them as separate species.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Am I right in assuming they are (or want to) splitting the Arctic Redpoll as they all seem to be called Coue's Arctic Redpoll in Britain now.

Cheers,

Adam

[Dogghound]

There are two races of Arctic Redpoll Carduelis hornemanni exilipes Coues's Redpoll which we often get in Britain these breed in Northern Europe and Carduelis hornemanni hornemanni Hornemann's Redpoll which are scarce and breed in Greenland and Arctic Canada. I think they are both subspecies and not actually split yet, although I may be wrong.

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

Lesser Redpoll, the British breeding form, is now generally accepted as a separate species now from Common Redpoll, though bizarrely the recent updated Collins Bird Guide still treats them as sub-species. The BTO lists them as separate species.

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

Am I right in assuming they are (or want to) splitting the Arctic Redpoll as they all seem to be called Coue's Arctic Redpoll in Britain now.

Cheers,

Adam

Originally Posted by Dogghound

There are two races of Arctic Redpoll Carduelis hornemanni exilipes Coues's Redpoll which we often get in Britain these breed in Northern Europe and Carduelis hornemanni hornemanni Hornemann's Redpoll which are scarce and breed in Greenland and Arctic Canada. I think they are both subspecies and not actually split yet, although I may be wrong.

Redpoll taxonomy, and how many races should be treated as full species, is still under debate. Generally three species are recognised (Common, Lesser and Arctic), but not everyone views Lesser as a full species (including the authors of The Collins Guide it seems), and some think that more species should be recognised.
The two subspecies of Arctic Redpoll are a potential split, which is why bird information services tend to put them out as Coues's/Hornemans Arctic Redpoll. Even if a potential split wasn't on the cards races that are identifiable in the field are usually put as as whichever race they are nowadays though (eg. Pale-bellied Brent Geese in the southeast, and White + Blue-headed Wagtails). In addition, there is the possibility that Common Redpoll may eventually be further split to Mealy and North-western Redpoll (Greenland and Icelandic Redpolls). The UK400 Club already recognise 5 redpoll species, but as far as I know they are the only organisation that does - even the Dutch, who have split the Brent Geese and most of the Yellow Wagtail races, only currently recognise 3 redpoll species.

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Common redpoll are mainly a winter visitor and dont breed here. Lesser are the british race of common and are resident breeders through most of Britain. Arctic are accidental migrants.

On occasion Common Redpolls have bred in the UK, and they may do so on a fairly regular basis in Scotland. Both the Scandinavian Mealy Redpoll, and Greenland Redpolls have bred (both races of Common).

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by RoyW

On occasion Common Redpolls have bred in the UK, and they may do so on a fairly regular basis in Scotland. Both the Scandinavian Mealy Redpoll, and Greenland Redpolls have bred (both races of Common).

Cheers for the infomation Roy .