Could this be a snow goose?

[tots1968]

Today, I took a couple of photos (not posted them yet as don't know how!!) of a little white goose like bird in the middle of a group of regular white geese. I looked it up and it looks like a snow goose (white, red bill narrower than a duck, thin neck, black feathers at rear (wing tips? ), daintier than a duck, but I am not whether it could be as it was only the size of your average duck. I would be grateful if anybody could clarify whether a snow goose could be that small as everything else fits.

[GuyF]

I'd say that it could possibly be a snow goose but if it is then it's likely to be an escape because wild snow geese tend to be amongst flocks of pnk-footed or other wild geese. If you go to the gallery and click on the upload button along the top you can find your file and upload it into the unidentified gallery, this would help with identification.
Guy

[Oscar2006]

[quote=tots1968;87705] of a little white goose like bird in the middle of a group of regular white geese. QUOTE]

We do not have groups of "regular white geese" in the UK except those in farmyard collections.
I think whatever bird you saw was not a wild goose anyway, but it could still have been a Snow goose, as there are many feral snow geese around.

Pictures wil help the ID when you manage to upload them.

Have fun on WAB

[tots1968]

Further to my recent post here are the pictures of the goose? it was among some other normal white geese so it certainly fits the description. If anybody is interested I photographed it in Queens Park in Crewe

[GuyF]

That is definetely a Snow Goose, and those are very nice pictures. Almost certainly a feral bird though.
Guy

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by GuyF

That is definetely a Snow Goose, and those are very nice pictures. Almost certainly a feral bird though.
Guy

Guy- I disagree. I'm pretty sure it's a Ross's Goose, close relative of Snow Goose I agree, but is considerably smaller + has a distinctive small but deep based bill. Undoubtedly feral, it's yet to be admitted onto the British list despite the good credentials of a 1st winter bird that turned up at Holkham with Pinkfeet a few years back + returning the following winter.

[tots1968]

Thanks for the information, if it aids identification I can tell you that it was roughly the same size as a mallard. How rare are ross's geese if they are rare at all?

This link points out that a rosss's goose has a rounder head than a snow goose which certainly does concur with the pictures. The size of the bird was the one thing that bothered me but having looked it up on the web it has a very rounded head which again fits the bird.

Snow Geese (near the bottom)

[GuyF]

Sorry, my mistake. Yes, Ross's Goose looks right.
Guy

[Oscar2006]

Originally Posted by tots1968

Thanks for the information, if it aids identification I can tell you that it was roughly the same size as a mallard. How rare are ross's geese if they are rare at all?

Wild ones are like rocking horse manure! you will never come across one or see it associating with Mallards!
GuyF & Aeshna5 have already indicated that it is a feral bird and as such is "only" a great opportunity to photograph what would be a really rare British bird.

[morpheus]

Just out of curiosity how do you know an animal is feral? if they are that rare and are usually only seen in captivity surely it would have a ring on it's leg or some other means of identification?

[morpheus]

Another thing, are there any known feral breeding ross's geese anywhere in the uk?

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by morpheus

Another thing, are there any known feral breeding ross's geese anywhere in the uk?

I've not heard of any feral populations of Ross's Geese in UK, though there are feral groups of Snow Geese. The latter species also turns up as genuine vagrants, arriving with carrier species from Greenland/ Iceland such as Pinkfeet, Greylag + Greenland Whitefront.

Ross's Geese are popular collection birds, so escapes are not uncommon ,as with many other waterfowl, such as Black Swans which frequently turn up in the wild. Strictly speaking it shouldn't happen as the wings of non-native waterfowl should be pinioned to prevent them escaping under the Wildlife + Countryside Act. This is to prevent problems such as the current cull of Ruddy Ducks where non-native species cause problems.

As I mentioned above a Ross's Goose turned up in 2 consecutive winters in Norfolk + was considered wild by many. It wasn't accepted because of the escape possibility, though with an expanding US population has to be a potential vagrant.

[morpheus]

Should have really introduced myself before posting, Tots1968 is my missus, we have been back to where we spotted the goose today and took some more photographs, is there any way you can tell if the goose has had its wings clipped from this photograph

I also took these as well, the light was much better today so the pictures have come out much better.

And here it is just hanging around with other geese and ducks

Right, my question is..... is this something to be excited about?

I'll be posting some of our other pictures soon, it would be nice if our first posts are "rare"



regards

Morpheus + Tots

[GuyF]

This probably isn't something to get excited about, although it is definetely nice to have one living near you. When we get vagrant geese in Britain they tend to arrive in huge flocks of wild geese e.g barnacle, brent, pink footed etc. It is very unlikely that a vagrant goose would turn up on its own and if it was wild it probably wouldn't be with mallards or tame geese. I don't really know anything about wing clipping, but those wings don't look like they have been clipped, however this is probably just someones carelessness. It is probably an escape from a collection, but definetely still nice to have around.
Guy
P.S very nice shots!

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by morpheus

Should have really introduced myself before posting, Tots1968 is my missus, we have been back to where we spotted the goose today and took some more photographs, is there any way you can tell if the goose has had its wings clipped from this photograph

I also took these as well, the light was much better today so the pictures have come out much better.

And here it is just hanging around with other geese and ducks

Right, my question is..... is this something to be excited about?

I'll be posting some of our other pictures soon, it would be nice if our first posts are "rare"



regards

Morpheus + Tots

Your photo clearly shows the wings are fully winged so can fly wherever it chooses! It may well stay put. At Kew Gardens there's a pair of fully winged Emperor Geese (which the keeper said had flown in here) + quite a few of the Bar-headed Geese are unpinioned too + most of the time they are happy to stay put.

[morpheus]

Just an update on the Ross's goose saga, Today I spoke to the bird expert at the local wildlife trust, after describing the goose we have seen, he contacted the county recorder to report it who then told him that one had been reported in the same location a couple of years back but never confirmed, he also said that it was put on a list somewhere to see if anybody had lost one....nobody had!!! his opinion is thaat as it obviously hasnt been clipped and it doesnt have any rings that it may very well be a wild bird!!!!

The recorder also commented that it was quite impressive that somebody has identified it as it is so rare in this country, soooo thanks for that, we did know it was unusual but had no idea it's so rare! and it's only the fact that we posted it here that we found out exactly what it is.

The Woman at the RSPB (I called them earlier too) also agreed that as it hasnt been clipped and doesnt have a leg ring coupled with nobody reporting it missing it may very well be a wild bird

so once again, thanks everyone for helping ID it

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by morpheus

Just an update on the Ross's goose saga, Today I spoke to the bird expert at the local wildlife trust, after describing the goose we have seen, he contacted the county recorder to report it who then told him that one had been reported in the same location a couple of years back but never confirmed, he also said that it was put on a list somewhere to see if anybody had lost one....nobody had!!! his opinion is thaat as it obviously hasnt been clipped and it doesnt have any rings that it may very well be a wild bird!!!!

The recorder also commented that it was quite impressive that somebody has identified it as it is so rare in this country, soooo thanks for that, we did know it was unusual but had no idea it's so rare! and it's only the fact that we posted it here that we found out exactly what it is.

The Woman at the RSPB (I called them earlier too) also agreed that as it hasnt been clipped and doesnt have a leg ring coupled with nobody reporting it missing it may very well be a wild bird

so once again, thanks everyone for helping ID it

Given the habitat + the fact that it's consorting with farmyard geese makes it look very much like an escaped bird- there are a lot of unringed, unpinioned collection birds out there!
It's not impossible for it to be wild (who would have predicted Long-billed Murrelet? Fortunately they're not kept in collections), but I think it's extremely unlikely. Even if it is ,it won't be accepted by the Rare Bird Panel as they din't accept the Norfolk bird which was with true wild geese in the proper habitat. Nonetheless it's still a good find.

It's still best to let your local recorder have these records as who knows what exotic species will become established next? In the past birders ignored exotics as just escapes + we have scant documentation for colonisation for some of these birds such as Ring-necked Parakeets.

[tots1968]

Hiya, I understand that Cheshire Wildlife Trust have contacted the County Recorder, it was he/she who said one had been seen at the park a couple of years ago. The ross's goose seems to be loitering with/near the group of white geese for some sort of protection, though it steers well clear when they go after bread etc. It is very timid, not like the park's usual suspects. There are a number of muscovy ducks there too - which have flown in, but they are pretty tame. (Many of them seem to have mucus on their eyes which can't be a good sign for their overall health. I thought about contacting the RSPCA but my previous experience with them and wild birds was that they weren't interested. They pretty much suggested the shot but living bird I found in my garden would have it's neck rung if I took it to them - charming). I don't think any of the birds will be there for much longer anyway as the park lake is due to be drained very shortly as part of renovation works. Many thanks to those who helped ID it - I was excited when I thought it was a snow goose so to find out it is even more special is great!

[Dan Salter]

Im not sure why everyone seem to be trying to dull your excitement and write it off as an escapee?...it may not be...so you be excited mate and well done you ! i for one am very jealous! and what a beautiful little bird !
Escapee or not it has the county recorder AND the RSPB excited...which is enough in my book for a woop woop !

Dan
oh and welcome to the site

[glsammy]

Well said! Well worth a raised glass or two!

[Dan Salter]

Someone had to ! oh and "Cheers"

[tots1968]

Thank you very much Dan and Graham, me and morpheus are pleased as punch. Its even cooler for us on a personal level to see something special because we are both really really amature wildlife spotters and have to look everything up just to be sure. Most of our wildlife discoverys are a result of 'ooh look at that, thats wierd...'. Although there is no way without the very kind help of people on this site we would have known what the ross's goose was, (or the muscovy ducks!!). Wild or escapee it is a very cool little bird.