Are Birds of Prey too successful now?

[Sneezewort]

I just read this article on BBC online ...

BBC News - Are birds of prey back?

Apparently some folk are not so happy about the success of our re-introduced raptors - and it sounds to me like a few of them have a vested interest in making the case for culling this part of the food chain in the not-too-distant future.

Personally I have derived a lot of enjoyment from watching the growing success of our local re-introduced Red Kites - they're beautiful birds.

I wondered what other WABbers think about this issue.

Julie

[HamieRaptorcliff]

I must say, given the recent articles I have seen on this issue, this isn't too bad!

What I mean is, although there will obviously be things in the article that are either not 100% factually correct or a misinterpretation, at least it attempts to give a more balanced view / report. It consults different parties, with different opinions, if nothing else.

On which side of the fence you sit on this issue is purely a matter of opinion, and as such, there can be no right or wrong. However, articles like this, in my opinion, are useful. It provides you with some fairly high level information (from both angles) to allow you to begin to consider the matter in hand. You would like to think that people will then go away and consider the issue in more detail before forming a view, but compared to the recent articles we have seen in other areas of the press, this does, on the face of it at least, seem a reasonable attempt at raising the issue.

For what it is worth, I just love seeing BOP, it amazes me everytime. But so does watching the robins in my garden. In an ideal world (perhaps without human intervention??) we wouldn't have to choose one over the other, but I appreciate that life isn't that simple.

I have serious reservations over Songbird Survival's motives / approach, but I don't know enough about it all to try to convince anyone either way. For now, I will try to enjoy everything I see and continue to listen / read anything that will help me understand further.

Cheers.

[Gill Catton]

I think they're doing fine, they are ony expanding into the ecological niches they always should've occipied.

[bigdave60dog]

It has always been the way. In bygone days most keepers would never tolerate a "hooked beak" (including Owls)on their walk.
It was the use of agricultural chemicals rather than direct persecution that led to the demise of our Raptors.
That said, the conditions that led to the development of healthy and diverse breeding population of British Birds of Prey has mostly been eroded away.
We can no longer afford to shoot on sight, poison and trap any of our wild birds much less our Raptors.
Unfortunately the predominant ethos today is one of "the creation of wealth is paramount" Money and jobs rule over all in todays society -Everything -including the technology that we are using in this sight- is subservient to profit.
We all accept that it is desirable to achieve constant economic growth. There is no way that that will not be terminal for the Earth Biosystem.
I suspect that we may hold back or slow down the demise of our countryside for a while but unless the ethos of our society -including you and me- changes we will continue to see the persecution of predators in vast tracts of our countryside.
Dave

[Amarillo]

No of course they are not too successfull. They are just recovering to normal population levels.

Songbird Survival are a group concerned about shooting interests, NOT a conservation organisation. They seem to have a very active campaign at the moment which is why these articles are all over the press at the moment. Unfortunately their campaign seems to be working because it is leading ordinary people to question whether there are now too many raptors.

[STYRBJORN]

I read a report on Saturday about a particular area of land which could support 350 pairs of hen harriers.There are just 5 pairs. On this grouse moor.

Keepers are rarely prosecuted, owners never. Of course, as likely as not the magistrates are the owners . . .

[Adam Cheeseman]

On Countryfile (I think) that they are considering changing the law so that it is the landowner who is culpable for any raptor shootings on their estate and not the person whos shoots them (unless they be the landowner). Don't think it will lead to any increase in prosecutions commensurate with the amount of crimes though.

I don't think that our raptors are too successful. Yes, Peregrines, Sparrowhawks and Common Buzzards are getting back to something like their pre DDT numbers, but what about the big drop in Kestrel numbers?

Cheers,

Adam

[STYRBJORN]

[quote=Adam Cheeseman;741144]

I don't think that our raptors are too successful. Yes, Peregrines, Sparrowhawks and Common Buzzards are getting back to something like their pre DDT numbers, but what about the big drop in Kestrel numbers?

Well, yes, but. Did kestrel numbers rise with the virtual disappearance of the bigger raptors, and are they now falling to what they "should" be? If a top predator disappears from an otherwise stable food chain, the smaller predators will have a larger food supply and population increase will result; replace the top predator and those further down will drop in population.

Genuine question.

[Meta menardi]

The posted comments to this article seem, bye and large, to be quite favourable to the BOPs. We have a very active sparrowhawk in out neighbourhood, it is sustained by a healthy population of sparrows and songbirds. Healthy predator, healthy prey population.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by STYRBJORN

Well, yes, but. Did kestrel numbers rise with the virtual disappearance of the bigger raptors, and are they now falling to what they "should" be? If a top predator disappears from an otherwise stable food chain, the smaller predators will have a larger food supply and population increase will result; replace the top predator and those further down will drop in population.

Genuine question.

They are falling due to habitat quality, nesting sites, hunting sites etc.