Culling Corvids

[vole-woman]

Originally Posted by RKB

So it's very hard to see what they think it will achieve. Except momentum.

Given that shooting corvids is already legal, Songbird Survival are presumably hoping in the end for cash off the government or off some other organisation, to fund the cull for them (and on a wider scale).

Because, hey, even when you're landed gentry, it's always good to have someone else put their hand in their pocket to pay for your leisure pursuits.

[Wasp Beetle]

The GWCT have done some excellent research at Loddington, and the results really are clear to see. The surveys are undertaken by unbiased partners and even the RSPB have struggled to deny the evidence.

There is a reason why nesting Lapwing sites on RSPB reserves most often have poorer success rates than conservation sites where foxes and corvids are controlled.

It is right and correct to say that there is a natural balance, that predators have their place and that a Sparrowhawk, a Corvid or a fox predating on songbirds and ground nesting birds is all part of this balance. However, if the balance that we are after is one where songbird and ground nesting bird numbers are lower than they have ever been, is it not right to manage the land with a gun (as has been the case for centuries) to help preserve the status quo?

I work as a Farm Environment Plan surveyor for the Higher Level stewardship Scheme and with Natural England's support the most favourable land I promote for targeting Farmland birds is those managed by keepered shoots. The reason being is that the buffer strips, cereal headlands, fallow plots and other options will obviously support breeding and wintering birds, but without the control of some key predators, the effect of these habitat enhancements are significantly reduced.

[vole-woman]

As has been said, corvids are already shot, and legally. What concerns me about this dodgy Songbird Survival outfit is that:

a) corvid control will be the thin end of the wedge; it'll be raptors next

b) the science behind their claims is highly questionable

c) why on earth should Joe Public be asked to fund a viscount's estate activities for him?

[rossy]

Originally Posted by Wasp Beetle

The GWCT have done some excellent research at Loddington, and the results really are clear to see. The surveys are undertaken by unbiased partners and even the RSPB have struggled to deny the evidence.

There is a reason why nesting Lapwing sites on RSPB reserves most often have poorer success rates than conservation sites where foxes and corvids are controlled.

It is right and correct to say that there is a natural balance, that predators have their place and that a Sparrowhawk, a Corvid or a fox predating on songbirds and ground nesting birds is all part of this balance. However, if the balance that we are after is one where songbird and ground nesting bird numbers are lower than they have ever been, is it not right to manage the land with a gun (as has been the case for centuries) to help preserve the status quo?

I work as a Farm Environment Plan surveyor for the Higher Level stewardship Scheme and with Natural England's support the most favourable land I promote for targeting Farmland birds is those managed by keepered shoots. The reason being is that the buffer strips, cereal headlands, fallow plots and other options will obviously support breeding and wintering birds, but without the control of some key predators, the effect of these habitat enhancements are significantly reduced.

hello wasp and welcome, but as stated more than once on here is what are they really plotting, corvids is looking more of a front, and behind it , whats going to be next ? as for lapwings , once plentiful, i agree, but man yet again has built on farmlands , which were sold off, and once green pastures , have become retail parks, housing estates, flats, , factorys, wind farms on the moors, these are factors without doubt, but going back to ground nesting birds, look at what other predators are about, mink, weasels, stoats, polecats, foxes, hedgehogs,otters, but its nature, and when food sources dwindle in areas , they have to move on, its a matter of survival, hence why corvids have learned to associate , that where man is food is, but thats their world, and do you think that because we humans who have caused this, have the right to give them the death penalty ? as we are superior, or supposed to be, rossy.

[Wasp Beetle]

Originally Posted by rossy

hello wasp and welcome, but as stated more than once on here is what are they really plotting, corvids is looking more of a front, and behind it , whats going to be next ? as for lapwings , once plentiful, i agree, but man yet again has built on farmlands , which were sold off, and once green pastures , have become retail parks, housing estates, flats, , factorys, wind farms on the moors, these are factors without doubt, but going back to ground nesting birds, look at what other predators are about, mink, weasels, stoats, polecats, foxes, hedgehogs,otters, but its nature, and when food sources dwindle in areas , they have to move on, its a matter of survival, hence why corvids have learned to associate , that where man is food is, but thats their world, and do you think that because we humans who have caused this, have the right to give them the death penalty ? as we are superior, or supposed to be, rossy.

Rossy,

you are quite right, the issue is not just corvids and I wasn't necessarily arguing what the objectives of this planned corvid control is (or what plans may lie beyond that). You are right to quote the Weasels, Stoats etc as common predators of ground nesting birds and (certainly Badgers could be added to that list). What I was addressing was a number of peoples insistence that the control of corvids (and indeed other predators) does not significantly affect the breeding success of a range of passerines etc. We have created a Britain that barely retains any truly natural habitats, and no land that is not managed by man in some form. Our management of the land and the habitats we have created has favoured a number of native and non-native species (namely Corvids, Wood pigeons, Grey squirrels etc), either because we have provided an enhanced opportunity for these species, or because species such as the corvids are resourceful and intelligent enough to find food throughout the year in high numbers (landfill, cultivated ground, parks and gardens, roadkill etc).

It is however an instinct for Magpies, Jays and Crows to forage for birds eggs and young between March and July - the protein is ideal for raising their own young. Without a limited food source to significantly reduce these birds numbers at any time of the year (even pigeons will fall significantly in number over a hard winter), I believe this high population of corvids is a significant contributing factor to why songbird numbers have fallen.

I would also like to strongly agree with an earlier post that the pressure of domestic and feral cats can significantly add to this pressure! I'd like to see every cat wear a bell. Stray dogs are sent to a pound, somehow its acceptable for cats to be able to roam onto farmland, into parks/gardens etc....

apologies for the ramble...

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by Wasp Beetle

There is a reason why nesting Lapwing sites on RSPB reserves most often have poorer success rates than conservation sites where foxes and corvids are controlled.

Just a quick point. Im not sure where the idea that RSPB don't cull predators comes from, because they do!

[Wasp Beetle]

The RSPB has started to control corvids on some sites as advised by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust (using Larsen traps). However I may be mistaken, but this is fairly recent and not conducted on all sites.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by Jonathan
Personally, I think the SST are, at best, misguided. However, I also think that those people who insist that no culling of corvids is ever necessary or acceptable are also misguided. There are instances where it may be necessary to reduce the risk of predation of vunerable populations of birds by corvids. Do you not think it better to control those corvids rather than allow them to possibly reduce such a vunerable population still further?

Shouldn't one of the first questions be, "Why is the population vulnerable in the first place?" Just because there may be large numbers of Corvids in the area, that may not be the reason for the other species' decline e.g. Cirl Bunting.

[Acipiter]

Intensive farming Adam, If you remove cover and the natural food, you get what we have now, not many farmland birds.

[STYRBJORN]

Just thought I'd point out that the list of birds on the General Licence is subject to yearly revision. The licence is issued by Natural England after consultation with the RSPB. The corvids listed are there because of their effect on "human activity", ie agriculture.

Ric