Raptor Killings in Scotland

[Endrick]

A very interesting report from the weekend news that I haven't seen on here

Revealed: Scotland?s bird killing fields - Rob Edwards

[Dogghound]

Its about time somethings done about this, its a complete joke how they get away with it in my eyes.

[bigdave60dog]

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Its about time somethings done about this, its a complete joke how they get away with it in my eyes.

like what? This is illegal. There are designated Police teams to deal with this, the RSPB are aware and will do everything in their power to prosecute.Much public opinion is against this. It`s just that the Scottish uplands are so vast and unpopulated that they are virtually impossible to police. The shoot owners have real clout in many areas. both on the ground and in Parliament.
We are talking about organisation who operate zero tolerance policies to Deer. They use helicopters to round them up and then keep them penned by flying round and round whilst the deer are shot with rifles. When all are dead or incapacitated they are butchered. Whole swathes of Mountains are cleared in this way. Whilst this is not illegal, it does go to show the sort of ruthlessness that these landowners use to develope and maintain their business interests.
How can police and organisations with limited finances compete with this sort of attitude and power

[Acipiter]

I think you all know how I feel about this one! unfortunately my opinion can get a little over heated, and as I have no wish to upset our younger members, I will keep them too myself.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by bigdave60dog

like what? This is illegal.

Tougher penalties, actually fining the landowner. People do get caught then they get tiny fines. How about if BOP are killed on an estate you are banned from hunting on it for 5/10 years?

Originally Posted by bigdave60dog

There are designated Police teams to deal with this, the RSPB are aware and will do everything in their power to prosecute.Much public opinion is against this. It`s just that the Scottish uplands are so vast and unpopulated that they are virtually impossible to police. The shoot owners have real clout in many areas. both on the ground and in Parliament.

Its not just Scotland though is it, we have the exact same problem on the north york moors. Which is not so vast.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Interesting that influential landowners appeared to block the release of the report. Its not the first time its happened. I know of a study into the effect of released pheasant on reptile populations that was stopped as the funding came from those involved in bird shoots and they didnt want to to find out that (as many herptologists suspect) that the predation of youngsters by an unnaturally high amount of birds on a small and often isolated reptile population was having a bad effect.

[mammalrecorder]

Like a large ammount of wildlife crime raptor killing is a very difficult offence to investigate and bring to court successfully because it is rarely discovered and reported.Statistics may show that the population of a particular species in an area is far lower than other factors suggest that it should be but it is only when a body is found and reported that an investigation can begin. The more publicity these problems get the more chance that people out walking in the countryside will realise that what they have seen is a crime and report it.

Hopefully the new WANE Bill in Scotland will address some of these problems.

[rossy]

let me be polite , absolute disgrace, who is in whos pocket ? like the ex police chap put, ban shoots on land where any foul play has occured, start at 3 years, and a big fine ,then if it happens again go to 5 years, and increase the fine, as big daves put its a vast area, and catching the offenders is very difficult, but the landowner, should be made responsible for his keeper, also i wonder if the police check if they keep poisons, as if they find dead bop , or animals on there land , could it not be traced ? must say im shocked by the figures, we know the hooray henrys like shooting grouse, and its big money, but as in the report of the pheasants , more birds were killed on the roads than being predated, so are they blaming the bop for chasing them onto the road ? its very worrying. rossy.

[bigdave60dog]

There is little doubt that predators are major drain on young birds. To suggest otherwise does no credit to our argument.
The question is how to stop the predators being persecuted.
Rightly or wrongly the financial benefit of having prolific grouse shoots on heather moors outweighs all other considerations in the eyes of those who hold the reigns of our country in a system where increasingly "goodness" is measured in terms of financial benefit.
Where there`s a will there`s a way. Sadly the will is not there.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by bigdave60dog

There is little doubt that predators are major drain on young birds. To suggest otherwise does no credit to our argument.

Although its also fair to say red grouse declines/losses are a far more complex issue than just predation. I admit a range of birds of prey will take grouse chicks and adults however various other factors such as afforestation, habitat degredation, habitat loss through sheep farming (plus additional predators such as crows and foxes associated with this), drainage, disease etc are all other factors causing problems to grouse in some cases more significant ones than birds of prey. A lot of it is almost tradition to kill BOP.