Raptor Killings in Scotland

[pda15]

Actually Mammal is right. The law in Scotland is completely different and much stricter than the rest of the UK. Also the government here is very certainly not Tory. We have never had a Tory government and I doubt if we ever will.
However the real thing is are we going to sit here and argue are are we going to do as advised and write to/e mail our MPs and MSPs?

I have already sent an e mail to mine. Anyone else?

[earthdragon64]

Something else that has to be taken into account in Scotland, particularly the Highlands and Islands, is the large number of absentee landowners.

A study of 218 estates covering 4.5 million acres was carried out prior to the Land Reform Act of 2003. It found that two thirds of the estates studied were in the hands of absentee owners. It was found that most of these estates run at a loss.

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Highland lairds remain absent

The quicker that the WANE bill passes complete with the "Vicarious Liability" clause holding landowners responsible for the actions of their employees, the better.

Regards, Audrey.

[diggleken]

Originally Posted by pda15

Actually Mammal is right. The law in Scotland is completely different and much stricter than the rest of the UK. Also the government here is very certainly not Tory. We have never had a Tory government and I doubt if we ever will.
However the real thing is are we going to sit here and argue are are we going to do as advised and write to/e mail our MPs and MSPs?

I have already sent an e mail to mine. Anyone else?

just like to point out that alec douglas hulme was scottish as far as I know, ended up Prime minister, hmmmmm, no legacy Tories in Scotland.............?
In principle now?
Cheers, dont shoot me,
Ken

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by mammalrecorder

. The laws covering raptor killing. snares, badgers etc etc are quite separate in Scotland and have been since 2002. Scotland does have Law Lords but they do not sit in the House of Lords and the ones I have come across are certainly not huge land owners.

spot on - no one is in anyones pocket (certainly not the WECOs) its just a difficult thing to prosecute succsfully

unsubstainiated allegations of corruption do nothing to further the cause

[mammalrecorder]

Actually Audrey I am not so keen on the vicarious liability section although it looks as if we will get it. I was very keen that estates and keepers should be licensed as well. That way it would be possible to withdraw a licence for someone who was not 'fit and propper person to manage an estate'. Vicarious liability might have some unintended consequences.

Requiring keepers to undergo training in snaring and untimately licensing all snare users would also be good if we cannot get a total ban. At least half my work these days is non target snarings.

Roll on the roll out of WANE.

[Jim Ford]

The report doesn't surprise me in the slightest. What does surprise me is the number of naive posters for whom this is shocking new news!

Jim

[rossy]

Originally Posted by mammalrecorder

I think that it is somewhat unfair to suggest that the Government are in the pocket of the landowners. I do not believe there is the slightest evidence to support this.
As for the police checking if there are poisons on an estate where raptors are suspected to have been poisoned I think you can take it that W.E.C.O.s. have some idea about how to do their job.
This is a UK wide group of people interested in wildlife and I have found lots of postings about baited badgers dumped on roads, poisoned raptors etc etc. Hopefully all the people who have seen these crimes and moaned about them here have reported them but certainly in the case of badgers I have seen no evidence of it.
If you want to do something about this sort of crime then
1) Report it if you see it and
2) write PERSONALLY to or e mail your MP. Tell them how strongly you feel. They are there because you or people like you voted them there and if enough people complain they will take note.

mammalrecorder tell me where i mentioned the government or w.e.c.o.s , i was implying the landowners and the gamekeepers, as apart from it being obvious, these dont abide to the law, and think they can do what they call justice, and take matters into their own hands, im aware of the difficulties involved , and jim im surprised by the figures being so high, but not surprised by just whats been going on, rossy.

[mammalrecorder]

Hi Rossy

Originally Posted by rossy

who is in whos pocket ?

I am sorry if I misinterpreted this comment as
a slur on the Scottish Government and legal system. I was unable to come to any conclusion other than that you were implying some form of corruption. I am glad to hear that was not the case.
As far as WECOs are concerned you wondered if police checked estates for poisons when dead raptors were found. I would suggest that to do so would be a very basic part of the investigation process and to suggest that they did not would imply some serious level of incompetence.
On a more general point clearly there are people here who feel very strongly about the killing of raptors and that is a good thing. However when I suggested two ways in which members of WAB could actually do something to help I was immediately subjected to a series of extermely abusive and ill informed comments. I live in Scotland, I deal with wildlife crime regularly and I am a member of the RSG that helped to produce the report that you are discussing. A new bill is currently passing through the Scottish Parliament that will strongly affect how such crimes are dealt with. If you are really interested in raptors and reducing wildlife crime in general then write to your MSPs (if you are in Scotland) or your MP (in England) to let them know your views. Abusing people on this site won't change anything...pestering your MP (politely) might.

[Lyn H]

[i]I think it is really terrible that people kill beautiful birds of prey but the police do their best to stop it and catch the criminals and it is not fair to say they don't. Also Scotland is a country and we have our own parliament and laws which are not the same as in England.
Me and my friends are going to e mail our MSP to tell them what we think and ask them to do something.

Lyn