Very sad news

[solus]

Good News!!!! From the BBC News website for Scotland, Monday 12th July.

BBC News - Loch of the Lowes osprey lives to see chicks fledge


"An osprey thought to be just hours from death a few weeks ago has survived to see her chicks leave the nest.

The first fledging took to the skies at the Loch of the Lowes centre in Perthshire on Sunday morning, the Scottish Wildlife Trust said.

The second made its first flight at 1000 BST on Monday.

The chicks' mother, a 24-year-old osprey called Lady, suffered a bout of ill health in June. Experts feared the bird would die when she stopped eating.

But thousands of webcam viewers witnessed her sudden recovery days later."

It seems doubtful she'll survive migration though. But having seen how she looked on the webcam not so long ago who knows?!

[Chris Yeates]

hello all

I'm going to wade in here with a point of view which I suspect may not be popular

I am wary of the sentimentality which adheres to (certain) birds of prey; I do not for one moment challenge their right to be here and the occasional human efforts to help them, but they are birds of prey and we live in a country where many species are under threat, and the urge to help the top predators I suspect is dangerously biased

the Derby Cathedral Peregrines are nationally famous, and good on the Little Grebe, Common Tern, Knot, Jack Snipe, Gadwall, Teal, Waxwing and Quail (along with even less significant bird species) who have given their lives to maintain that star status

we live in the age of Big Cat Diaries, where the charismatic mega-fauna rule supreme and where the less interesting (and harder to identify) lower life forms should just get on with their allotted role of being - well - prey

but woe betide the Magpies in your garden which take out a clutch of Blackbird chicks - they are just evil, nasty birds which deserve all that's coming to them

in the world of Wild About Britain we must surely guard against too sentimental and, therefore, biased a view of the natural world; who cares a damn about the fish in Loch Garten, they exist merely as a food source don't they? I would maintain that in some subtle way our preference and respect for predators is a cryptic justification for our own lording over the planet, even when that respect can result in the hunting of those predators themselves, to show that the human race
really is top of the heap

I await the opprobrium . . . . .

Chris

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

we live in the age of Big Cat Diaries, where the charismatic mega-fauna rule supreme and where the less interesting (and harder to identify) lower life forms should just get on with their allotted role of being - well - prey

but woe betide the Magpies in your garden which take out a clutch of Blackbird chicks - they are just evil, nasty birds which deserve all that's coming to them

Sounds like an interesting point. I wonder though if it's because MPs are a lot more common, and the PFs etc. are on the road to recovery numbers-wise from persecution by our fellow man - and seeing them hunting is a sign of survival?

[rossy]

ok chris i take it your not a fan of birds of prey ! this point i make to you is , they take their prey and eat it as a means of survival, also you only get 1 pair in 1 area as they are terrortorial, magpies are here there and everywhere, once a country bird now all over the place, but your missing the main culprits of many birds cats ! which im fed up with and many more alike on here, they kill for pleasure and not to eat, so the millions that they have taken dosent have an impact does it, you bet your boots it does, and this thread was about the osprey , which im pleased to see made a remarkable recovery, just hope she makes it on migration, great story. rossy.

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by rossy

...the main culprits of many birds cats ! which im fed up with and many more alike on here, they kill for pleasure and not to eat

Hmmm... I'd rather by nature than pleasure. They are carnivores, and it's in their blood to kill - yes they may be fed by us as pets and so don't go hungry, but it's in their nature.

Anyway, great news about the girl's recovery, lets hope she returns next year!

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

hello all

I'm going to wade in here with a point of view which I suspect may not be popular

I am wary of the sentimentality which adheres to (certain) birds of prey; I do not for one moment challenge their right to be here and the occasional human efforts to help them, but they are birds of prey and we live in a country where many species are under threat, and the urge to help the top predators I suspect is dangerously biased

the Derby Cathedral Peregrines are nationally famous, and good on the Little Grebe, Common Tern, Knot, Jack Snipe, Gadwall, Teal, Waxwing and Quail (along with even less significant bird species) who have given their lives to maintain that star status

we live in the age of Big Cat Diaries, where the charismatic mega-fauna rule supreme and where the less interesting (and harder to identify) lower life forms should just get on with their allotted role of being - well - prey

but woe betide the Magpies in your garden which take out a clutch of Blackbird chicks - they are just evil, nasty birds which deserve all that's coming to them

in the world of Wild About Britain we must surely guard against too sentimental and, therefore, biased a view of the natural world; who cares a damn about the fish in Loch Garten, they exist merely as a food source don't they? I would maintain that in some subtle way our preference and respect for predators is a cryptic justification for our own lording over the planet, even when that respect can result in the hunting of those predators themselves, to show that the human race
really is top of the heap

I await the opprobrium . . . . .

Chris

I think it must be time for a reshowing of some of David Attenborough's series. Let some of the lesser species be stars for a few minutes .... Though they are not usually iconic, and we have a small attention span, so they will only be stars for a short time.

We do seem to have a simplistic need to have icons (and stars), and an interest in the biggest and the best. Not just birds but roses, marrows, cars, you name it ..... which I think it is often a bit of a male preoccupation. Including birds of prey (it is predominantly men who want to shoot them, and again predominantly men in the raptor watch groups).

But the Old Lady is 25, and has become over the years a very visible and individual part of the local landscape there, and given people the time to become sentimental about her. If my lady blackbird nested 20 years in my garden I'd be pretty sentimental about her ... heck, I became sentimental about the one who nested there 3 years on the trot ....

It is probably for similar reasons to why the Royals and the rich and powerful, or the well-endowed get so much attention, and we seem to lap it up in the newspapers. But give me the Old Dame of Loch Lowes anytime instead of that other old dame, the Queen Mum, or that rather large breasted dame who is never out of our newspapers ....

Personally I do prefer the much maligned Magpies and the humble House Sparrows to the big birds of prey .....

[thunder]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

hello all

I am wary of the sentimentality which adheres to (certain) birds of prey; I do not for one moment challenge their right to be here and the occasional human efforts to help them, but they are birds of prey and we live in a country where many species are under threat, and the urge to help the top predators I suspect is dangerously biased

I wonder if anyone has any figures for
a) the amount of money spent per year by the public on feeding 'prey' species (Blue Tits in your garden)

b) the amount spent by conservation organisations on 'top predators'

I'd be surprised if a) isn't a lot larger than b).

henrya

[duffsdad]

Yes there are many species under threat in this country but at the moment I don't think it's the trout ,perch & pike in loch garten
The reason people are sentimental about "certain" birds of prey is because they are so rare , I've seen millions of sparrows , magpies , robins and such but i've only ever seen a few golden eagles & ospreys and i've never seen a sea eagle or red kite but these were all birds that were common in this country 200 years ago and hunted to extinction because man decided profit was more important than keeping the balance of nature . I suspect the reason there are so many species under threat is more to do with modern farming , the loss of green belt and climate change than a handful of birds of prey .

[posie]

Originally Posted by duffsdad

Yes there are many species under threat in this country but at the moment I don't think it's the trout ,perch & pike in loch garten
The reason people are sentimental about "certain" birds of prey is because they are so rare , I've seen millions of sparrows , magpies , robins and such but i've only ever seen a few golden eagles & ospreys and i've never seen a sea eagle or red kite but these were all birds that were common in this country 200 years ago and hunted to extinction because man decided profit was more important than keeping the balance of nature . I suspect the reason there are so many species under threat is more to do with modern farming , the loss of green belt and climate change than a handful of birds of prey .

Hello All, It is the crow family that are diminishing the numbers of smaller birds. I am not guessing, I have seen DOZENS of nestlings and fledgelings taken to feed the crow babies., thats apart from the eggs they take as well.

Here on the farm there are dozens of nests, all sorts, including swallows, wagtails, many garden birds, field birds, ground nesting, tree nesting, hedge nesting, barn nesting, house nesting etc..and the crows, mostly carrions and magpies, take most of the babies, if they don't get them in the nest, they get them when they fledge...they even kept trying to get the baby kestrels from their nest in the pylon., and they had ALL the babies of 11 hen pheasants...I haven't seen any baby birds taken by birds of prey........Posie..

[JB9302]

Originally Posted by posie

Hello All, It is the crow family that are diminishing the numbers of smaller birds. I am not guessing, I have seen DOZENS of nestlings and fledgelings taken to feed the crow babies., thats apart from the eggs they take as well.

Here on the farm there are dozens of nests, all sorts, including swallows, wagtails, many garden birds, field birds, ground nesting, tree nesting, hedge nesting, barn nesting, house nesting etc..and the crows, mostly carrions and magpies, take most of the babies, if they don't get them in the nest, they get them when they fledge...they even kept trying to get the baby kestrels from their nest in the pylon., and they had ALL the babies of 11 hen pheasants...I haven't seen any baby birds taken by birds of prey........Posie..

100% agree Posie , my dad was a gamekeeper many yrs ago and always told us he believed Magpies/Crows were the main culprits to nesting birds ( not bop) , a couple of yrs ago the Magpies caused a decline in the garden bird population of my brothers/his neighbours gardens.
With their agreement he thinned them out and the garden birds recovered , I have always thought that Magpies/Crows dont have any natural predators and their wide varied diet and clever opertunist approach makes them very abundant everywhere.

Julian