Marsh or Willow Tit

Ian Gray · #1 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 05:51 PM

Oh no not that one again

I know it's been asked again and again, and I'm usually not to bad with these, but I would like some confirmation on this one. This was taken at a sight were I've only seen Willow Tits, only heard Willow Tits, but I think this one is a Marsh Tit. Sorry but I never managed a head on shot, for ID purposes this was the best I managed.

Ian

dunlin · #2 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Gray

Oh no not that one again

I know it's been asked again and again, and I'm usually not to bad with these, but I would like some confirmation on this one. This was taken at a sight were I've only seen Willow Tits, only heard Willow Tits, but I think this one is a Marsh Tit. Sorry but I never managed a head on shot, for ID purposes this was the best I managed.

Ian

Sorry cant help with the id but its a great photo. I always get these two mixed up and i have to rely on the call and collins bird guide.
cheers mark.......

Jenny W · #3 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 06:40 PM

I read a paper recently about the separation of Marsh and Willows. It was saying one of the best features to go by was a light mark at the base of the upper mandible of the Marsh Tit, whereas in Willows it's completely black. Going by that yours may well be a Marsh looking at your photo, unless the light mark at the base of your bird's bill is just reflection from the camera. Same with the wing panel, I can't decide whether or not I can see one, or if it's just the camera. Cheek patch looks clean and white, suggesting Willow. Marsh is more common though.

Call is still by far the most reliable feature though, to be honest, it can be difficult to separate them in the hand sometimes!

Harold Smith · #4 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:09 PM

I am certain it is a Marsh Tit! The black cap follows the line of the neck and is not as thick as the Willow Tit. The underside is also much paler than the Willow Tit.

Looking at my trusty RSPB Birds of Britain and Europe (page 315) the picture is almost identical to your excellent photograph.

Harold.

david156 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:13 PM

Hi.
I would go for Marsh Tit too.
This is a picture of a marsh tit I took a few weeks ago.

Hope it helps!

David

Ian Gray · #6 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:22 PM

thanks very much Mark and Jenny for your response. And yes Jenny, the white mark on the upper mandible is what made me question the ID in the first place. No flash was used, and no sunlight present

so I don't think it's a trick of light, but could be wrong. I never heard this individual call, but I'm fairly sure the the other Tits at this site are all Willow, do Marsh Tits call if no other Marsh Tits are present.

shenk1 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:23 PM

I'd say Marsh.We get a pair of Willow in the garden every day and this just has a slightly different look to it. Head seems a little more rounded (could just be markings making it seem that way) and the wing seem to be missing the lighter feather that seems to stand out on the willow.Having said this we only i.d. ours for certain by the TSZ TSZ TSZ call they make.

Ian Gray · #8 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:37 PM

thanks very much Harold, David and Shenk1. I think all the responses have confirmed my first thoughts, Marsh Tit. I would not have questioned it had it not been for the location, but saying that, it always makes a good Thread

Ian

Picidae · #9 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 08:07 PM

definitely a Marsh, Ian - excellent photo too.

ChrisJB · #10 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harold Smith

I am certain it is a Marsh Tit! The black cap follows the line of the neck and is not as thick as the Willow Tit. The underside is also much paler than the Willow Tit.

Harold.

Absolutely. I love marsh/willow tit threads as they are such fun.

Regards, Chris