Sea Eagles v crofters' lambs....

[simon taylor]

Originally Posted by JeffH

It was a conclusion based on a scientific study, science (and not rumour or speculation) being the foundation of all good conservation work. If you want more detailed information I suggest you look up the report rather than simply assuming anything

PS. For anyone interested the full 48 page report can be found here - http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/...60/0014566.pdf
with the evidence of 'killing' being contained in sections 3.4 and 3.5 on pages 11-14.

Jeff

You'll notice question marks at the end of my last post indicating that i was actually "asking" if these "kills" had been witnessed......

[richnfamous]

Originally Posted by Madelinew

Sorry folks but please don't tar an entire group of people with the same negative brush. Crofting is a way of life that Scotland strives to preserve and is often not an easy existence. I'm by no means a farmer's champion most of the time but it's a little unfair to target crofters most of whom are probably making a legitimate point about the impact of sea eagles, which were artificially reintroduced, in addition to the hardships of many a crofter's existence.

I haven't said anything bad about crofters - I know it's a hard way of life and although there may be a few backward-looking ones, the vast majority are decent folk who love nature. My point is that a compensation scheme is in the interest of all. It ensures that sea eagles stay (no eagles, no compensation) and if a few do a bit of fiddling to ease hardship, then fair play - like most farmers, they probably need the cash. That's a small price to pay to protect sea eagles.

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by simon taylor

You'll notice question marks at the end of my last post indicating that i was actually "asking" if these "kills" had been witnessed......

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your comment Simon but by your use of the words "I assume" I thought you were trying to make a point by way of a rhetorical question.....

Jeff

[Bishopswood]

If the Crofters say that the tags totally deterred the WTSE then surely all they need do is tie replica tags to all the lambs as a matter of course.

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by Bishopswood

If the Crofters say that the tags totally deterred the WTSE then surely all they need do is tie replica tags to all the lambs as a matter of course.

That may be worth a try on a few crofts as part of the ongoing study but I don't know how practical it might be in the long term when dealing with thousands of lambs each year, nor what the cost implications are.

Perhaps the RSPB should fund the cost of supplying such fake tags to all the crofters who claim to be losing lambs?

Personally I think the most important aspect of this whole issue is to do whatever is necessary to win over the support of the local people in much the same way as has been done on Mull where (subject to a few minor exceptions) the presence of WTSEs is now generally regarded as an important asset by most islanders and to the benefit of all concerned.

As an aside, whilst watching Sea Eagles on Mull earlier this year I was told of one taking a Barn Owl (in flight) the previous day - one protected bird preying on another - so there's another issue

Jeff

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by JeffH

As an aside, whilst watching Sea Eagles on Mull earlier this year I was told of one taking a Barn Owl (in flight) the previous day - one protected bird preying on another - so there's another issue

Jeff

Our eagles - by which I mean Golden and WTSE, though relying a great deal on carrion, will prey on anything that's available: They DO take live lambs - and healthy ones at that, as well as the weak and sickly specimens. They will take virtually anything that flies from small nestlings, through crows to peregrines, and anything that walks and can be lifted, from a vole to a fox. It's always been the way, and it's nothing new.
The crofters - who seek to persecute the WTSE, invariably fail to mention the golden eagle which will not hesitate to take a lamb, but only during those early days of lambing when they are small enough to lift. This opportunistic window however does not last long.

[willing to learn]

Of course eagles can take lambs and bigger, be silly to say otherwise. But livestock losses due to eagle predation must be small. While I feel ror the crofters losses, I am more concerned about the persecution eagles and other BOP they seem to be facing still.
YouTube - Golden Eagle flies away with a goat.
Regards
Colin

[Assyrian]

Worth remembering here that the WTSE was (legally) originally wiped out to protect British foodstocks in the way of lambs during the First World War. Just because the birds are a different generation doesn't mean that they've changed habits and instinct that's accrued over centuries. The crofters know this and understandably feel a bit miffed that everyone now officially denies that the WTSE takes lambs at a time when they can't afford a single loss.

I personally think that everyone needs to accept that the eagles are back, they eat lambs and there should be compensation paid to the crofters on an annual basis - and this is what discussions/negotiations should be based on, not wasting time arguing over transmitters etc.

BTW I'm not linked with eaither camp, just a subject I've followed for a long time.
Chris

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by Assyrian

Worth remembering here that the WTSE was (legally) originally wiped out to protect British foodstocks in the way of lambs during the First World War. Just because the birds are a different generation doesn't mean that they've changed habits and instinct that's accrued over centuries. The crofters know this and understandably feel a bit miffed that everyone now officially denies that the WTSE takes lambs at a time when they can't afford a single loss.

I personally think that everyone needs to accept that the eagles are back, they eat lambs and there should be compensation paid to the crofters on an annual basis - and this is what discussions/negotiations should be based on, not wasting time arguing over transmitters etc.

BTW I'm not linked with eaither camp, just a subject I've followed for a long time.
Chris

You are incorrect in saying that everyone officially denies that eagles take lambs. It is widely accepted that they do, but not in the numbers that are suggested by the crofters.
It was hoped that the recent tagging experiment would back up the argument that the number of lambs taken is minimal, and indeed it does. But surprise surprise the crofters maintain that the tags “deter the eagles.” The argument therefore is set to continue – courtesy of the crofters. When faced with the evidence they refused to accept it, so any progress by meaningful discussion they have rendered impossible.
(And incidentally - many of these same crofters run B & B businesses that do very well out of the tourists that flock to see the WTSE - on Mull in particular, they are worth millions of pounds to the local economy.)

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by willing to learn

Of course eagles can take lambs and bigger, be silly to say otherwise. But livestock losses due to eagle predation must be small. While I feel ror the crofters losses, I am more concerned about the persecution eagles and other BOP they seem to be facing still.
YouTube - Golden Eagle flies away with a goat.
Regards
Colin

Not disagreeing with what you say (they do take large prey) but that youtube video was dismissed as a fake, its made from footage of wild birds and captive one stitched together.