Sparrow Hawk or Goshawk

[davideo0]

Thank you to:
Lance Morgan, PMG and Gill Catton for your contributions.

The definitive answer appears to come from PMG to whom I bow.

I'm afraid I don't understand the term "jizz". From the context, I take it, it means "appearance". A very detailed explanation, Thank you.

I would not dream of arguing against such knowledgable people but my wife, who saw the whole attack, insists that the victim was not a collared dove but probably some sort of feral pigeon.

David

[Jason Claxton]

Yes David the term Jizz ,in this context does refer to a general behaviour,appearance or some other recognition from within in a Birder,it could even be subjective,but comes with experience,often jizz ID might come into play with a bird at a distance,when features might not be clearly recognisable.The term is thought to have come from GISS (General Impression of Size and Shape) from World War II , about plane ID,but this is claimed not be true.

[PMG]

Originally Posted by davideo0

Thank you to:
Lance Morgan, PMG and Gill Catton for your contributions.

The definitive answer appears to come from PMG to whom I bow.

I'm afraid I don't understand the term "jizz". From the context, I take it, it means "appearance". A very detailed explanation, Thank you.

I would not dream of arguing against such knowledgable people but my wife, who saw the whole attack, insists that the victim was not a collared dove but probably some sort of feral pigeon.

David

I wouldn't dream of arguing with your wife either - I don't know her well enough for that

I just googled jizz to make sure I was going to explain it properly but a lot of porno meanings came up first ........ but in birding parleance it means the whole look of the bird, how it acts, looks , moves - they all have particular nuences it can be handy to latch on to. The google explanation also said it was a bit like you know its your friend down that dark alley - the way they move, the outline, the way they move their head or hands - that kind of thing. If you spend time birdwatching quite a lot of these various traits become observable and you remember - and even if you don't remember something as an exact despcription - you get a feeling of deja vue - you've seen this before and it was xy and z - if you see what I mean. (It means I'm turning into an old git with too much experience and not enough energy is what it means to me )

[Jason Claxton]

Yes I also saw the other contexts on Google ,PMG.There is also a book, David, called:- Birds by Character :Britain and Europe ,Field Guide to Jizz Identification by Rob Hume. Maybe somebody on WAB will tell you more about it.Because I havent got it.

[davideo0]

PMG & Jason:

Thanks for the explanation.
David

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by PMG

Fantastic capture! It is an adult female sparrowhawk. At close range there are two features which seperate 'gos' and 'spawk'

gos has orange eyes and a longtitudinally (head to tail) streaked breast plus mighty-looking legs!

spawk has bright clear yellow eyes and a horozontally (across wing to wing) barred chest and slim, thin elegant looking legs.......

and the jizz of a gos (like on the chaffinch as versus hawfinch thread) you will know when you've seen one - they look like 'bruisers'

Hi Pauline

Goshawk only has streaked breast in juvenile plumage (thus helpful to separate from Sparrowhawk of any age, since Spars never have streaked plumage). In adult Gos however, the breast is barred, as in Sparrowhawk. Both Sparrowhawk and Gos can have yellow irises and both may darken to orange/red with age so again, not a reliable indicator where the iris is dark yellowish/orange as in the subject bird (More usual in Gos for iris to turn red in older age though than Spar and more often in male Gos). (see first link below, male on top of female Gos!)

Tarsus on Gos is obviously thick cf. to Sparrowhawk, as you say and which is a very good diagnostic.

Female Sparrowhawk can have very bold head patterns with very bold white supercilium (cf. to male Sparrowhawk which often shows an indistinct head pattern). Male Gos also has bold head pattern, so if size not easily comparable in the field, can be source of confusion. Female Gos has rather a more indistinct head pattern but lacks the rufous streaks of a female Spar which show in the photo.

Structure is the best indicator with Gos having protruding barrel chests (very obvious when in feeding position) and as you say, they look like 'bruisers'! In flight and on prey, the vent is usually obviously heavily feathered and stretching to well under the tail. Also, to me, the profile of the head of a Gos is more heavily built with a more protruding 'snout' giving the impression of a more fierce looking bird altogether with smaller meaner eyes!

some pics here: Goshawk
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=27017
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=20136
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=10454

Sparrowhawk:
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=24989
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=18032

Fantastic photos David!

[davideo0]

Thank you Picidae for that incredibly detailed analysis of the differences between these two birds and the traps for misidentification between them.

I must admit I now feel much less of a fool for asking for help but much more informed.

David

[Chas]

Very interesting, the prey is 99.9% Collared Dove for me. if it isn't I would eat my shorts!

[cutecoot]

Great photo I think I saw a sparrowhawk at Winkworth aboretum at the weekend, unfortunately didn't have my binnies with me at the time, but it was a hawk of some kind and quite a whitish colour as it flew down to land high up on the branch of a dead tree. I was quite excited about it as I don't think I've ever seen a sparrowhawk before, the birds I had always been told were sparrowhawks by my dad, turns out were actually kestrels! Can't be sure it was one though, not having my bins to hand, will make sure I have them with me next time I go out

[willing to learn]

Originally Posted by Chas

Very interesting, the prey is 99.9% Collared Dove for me. if it isn't I would eat my shorts!

I go 99.99% and I wear big shorts
Regards
Colin