Unfamiliar names

[charlieb]

This is an extract from the BOU's (British Ornithologists' Union) website (British Ornithologists Union: The British List Bird Species Recorded in Britain) that has bugged me for a while - as far as I am aware, birds are the only group of organisms that have received this kind of treatment from a supposedly scientific body (or any other for that matter).

... The BOU agrees that having a set of agreed English names for international use is important, especially as the understanding of scientific names continues to diminish and scientific names themselves are no more stable than English names. In an increasingly English-speaking world, English names will be easier for the majority to remember than increasingly unfamiliar scientific names.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this - students of other taxonomic groups don't seem to have found the need for eliminating scientific names and standardizing vernacular ones (to English).

[Jason Claxton]

I was quite suprised Charlie,to see in a SNHS report that a common Longhorn Beetle called Pseudovadonia livida ,has the common name of Fairy-ring Longhorn ,after Duff(2007), I for one was much happier using the Latin names for these.

[loripo]

I came across this chart of languages used on the net.
However a list of language speakers shows Mandarin at the top. POssibly GReek and Latin are no longer taught, but I would think that a standandising of English names would need a lot of discussion before it became useable. (And no doubt it would be American English ie for color etc sigh)

[Jonners]

Interesting. I always took the latin name to be the unchanging name of a creature or plant, the bottom line definitive statement of which particular creature/plant was being referred to. As a dead language, I would have thought that it was much less likely to change, at least not as much as say English names. I am aware that some latin names do get updated or changed for various reasons, but I always thought that the purpose of having a scientific or latin name was to serve as a backstop, where there was confusion caused by more common names and languages. After all, talk to an American about a Robin and you could mean one of two quite distinct species; talk about Erithacus rubecula, and it would be clear what you were talking about, even if you didn't know what that name means. And even renaming the American Robin and the European Robin seems a long-winded way to get what the scientific names have already achieved, namely an internationally recognised classification for everything.

[loripo]

I agree - dumbing down again, cocking up in my opinion(if I'm allowed to say that).
My grandson wanted to do Latin as he is taking Biology, but they couldnt find a tutor. I would have thought that for the naming of birds say a knowledge of nouns and verbs in Latin might work, without having to study the grammar.

[davecatt]

On first reading this report 2 years ago, my opinion was and still is that they should have been more honest.

Quite simply it is cheaper to have a standardised name than to have to republish every time scientific research finds a need to change taxonomic names.

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by charlieb

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this - students of other taxonomic groups don't seem to have found the need for eliminating scientific names and standardizing vernacular ones (to English).

Where does it say BOURC is eliminating scientific names?! It doesn't. It also doesn't say it's changing the English names that are currently used internationally in English speaking Countries just that these should be standardised which is part of a wider and international ornithological project. What it is doing however, is including the vernacular (colloquial/common) names used with British Birders in it's British lists where it differs with the scientific and international English name currently in use.

Not sure who the ''students'' are that you refer to but perhaps ''students'' of 'other taxonomic groups' should follow suit and come up with some English names for the many species of insects that are only known by their latin names and impossible to remember!

Students of vocabulary might recall 'vernacular' language is the native/local language of a specific geographical area. This being a separate usage of language such as the language of English which is used internationally and needs to be standardised.

[davecatt]

"Students of vocabulary might recall 'vernacular' language is the native/local language of a specific geographical area. This being a separate usage of language such as the language of English which is used internationally and needs to be standardised."

So that would be the Engish spoken by the majority of the English speaking world as opposed to the UK version.

Could get complicated

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by davecatt

"

So that would be the Engish spoken by the majority of the English speaking world as opposed to the UK version.

Could get complicated

Uh, we're only talking about standardising the existing names of birds not creating a whole new 'English language'!!

Anyway, the English spoken by the majority of those in the UK is already complicated to non native speaking English people and those learning English as a foreign language. Do you go around sounding like the Oxford English Dictionary or a 5th form English grammer book, I certainly don't! Standardising English names for birds would be a great help for international ornithologists ... holding on to vernacular names also would help british birders/those not familiar with Latin or the international birding community.

You say Peewit
I say Lapwing
(who says Green Plover)

I'll feel a song coming on ..










'

[Jason Claxton]

Sorry I just had to blurt out Hedge Accentor,for Dunnock