Sparrowhawk attack!

[k4t3]

Male sparrowhawk took collared dove this afternoon, but cat interrupted the kill. Dove still alive but obviously stressed, bleeding profusely from back where all feathers and skin been removed, would it be best to put dove out of misery or to try n help? have removed dove to safe site but now stuck...

[Wild-Woman]

The dove will probably die of shock but if you feel it is suffering, best to have it painlessly put to sleep in my opinion.

[k4t3]

Yes, the female sparrowhawk would not have let this one go... she's v determined, male could just not lift this one...just a pity to make this one suffer

[squeek]

thats so sad, thats why i try to stop these attacks and so far what im doing is working. i have a thread called "for those who want to stop sparrowhawk attacks in garden" i'll bump it if i can find it.

i hope the Dove's suffering ends very soon.
depends on your vet what will happen, many choose to put down wildlife, probably better at a bird sanctuary.
pls let us know what happens

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by squeek

thats so sad, thats why i try to stop these attacks and so far what im doing is working. i have a thread called "for those who want to stop sparrowhawk attacks in garden" i'll bump it if i can find it.

i hope the Dove's suffering ends very soon.
depends on your vet what will happen, many choose to put down wildlife, probably better at a bird sanctuary.
pls let us know what happens

Sparrowhawks have to kill to eat there for by interrupting them you could prevent them getting a very much needed meal and could die as a consequence..
Squeek you would be better off trying to stop local cat strikes on wildlife.

In this case its hard as WW said it would probably not survive anyway..

[Jenny W]

To be completely honest the best thing to do is to put it out of it's misery there and then and save the extra stress and expense of taking it to a vet/wildlife rehabilitator. It's perhaps just as sad that the Sparrowhawk lost it's meal needlessly because of a cat - the bird will have to expend well needed energy to hunt again. (Oh I may get slated for saying that - sorry to be controversial but it's a valid point)

[2dogs2000]

Originally Posted by Jenny W

To be completely honest the best thing to do is to put it out of it's misery there and then and save the extra stress and expense of taking it to a vet/wildlife rehabilitator. It's perhaps just as sad that the Sparrowhawk lost it's meal needlessly because of a cat - the bird will have to expend well needed energy to hunt again. (Oh I may get slated for saying that - sorry to be controversial but it's a valid point)

I agree with you.

[earthdragon64]

Originally Posted by Jenny W

To be completely honest the best thing to do is to put it out of it's misery there and then and save the extra stress and expense of taking it to a vet/wildlife rehabilitator. It's perhaps just as sad that the Sparrowhawk lost it's meal needlessly because of a cat - the bird will have to expend well needed energy to hunt again. (Oh I may get slated for saying that - sorry to be controversial but it's a valid point)

And it means a 2nd bird will die to replace the one that got away - or didn't as in this case. A perfect example of why I think trying to prevent the natural occurrence of a predator killing and eating is actually causing more suffering and death not preventing it.

Obviously in this case it was a cat that caused the interruption, so it's a bit different, but in cases where it's a person deliberately chasing the Sparrowhawk during/after a kill or attemped kill, then it's merely postponing the inevitable and killing two prey birds instead of one.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Jenny W

To be completely honest the best thing to do is to put it out of it's misery there and then and save the extra stress and expense of taking it to a vet/wildlife rehabilitator. It's perhaps just as sad that the Sparrowhawk lost it's meal needlessly because of a cat - the bird will have to expend well needed energy to hunt again. (Oh I may get slated for saying that - sorry to be controversial but it's a valid point)

Agree entirely.

If the O/P does kill the dove it might be worth leaving it where it was originally found (unless the cat's still around). Spars often return to large kills the next day.

Cheers
Jonathan

[willing to learn]

Shame the Cat entered the equation, Jonathan's idea seems to have the common sense approach if its despatched place it back to the area where it was predated.
Regards
Colin

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Jenny W

To be completely honest the best thing to do is to put it out of it's misery there and then and save the extra stress and expense of taking it to a vet/wildlife rehabilitator. It's perhaps just as sad that the Sparrowhawk lost it's meal needlessly because of a cat - the bird will have to expend well needed energy to hunt again. (Oh I may get slated for saying that - sorry to be controversial but it's a valid point)

I agree with you too jenny - best bet is to hit it on the head or wring its neck rather than subject it to the stress of transport to the vets.

and i agree with jonathon , leave the carcase for a scavenger - even if the sprawk doesnt return it will provide a meal for a fox or whatever.

[Wild-Woman]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I agree with you too jenny - best bet is to hit it on the head or wring its neck rather than subject it to the stress of transport to the vets.

That's ok so long as you know that you're able to do the job properly.

[k4t3]

Thanks to all u guys that answered my query, I just want to say that nature took its course and the dove was dead this morning. Sad, but would have been a better end for the sparrowhawk to benefit from it. I couldn't leave the dove where it was as the neighbourhood full of cats....

As for stopping hawks from taking kills in the garden, I disagree strongly with this, even though I enjoy putting food out to watch the many birds in my garden. Why feel smug for feeding the cute blue tits and then get mad for inadvertantly feeding the big bad hawks? I was stood about 5 feet away from the hawk when it took the dove and could have prevented it, but I was stunned by the speed, grace and beauty of the hawk, a lovely male.

This is nature as it is, not all sweet n snuggly, and I never fail to be amazed by it, even when the outcome is sad like this. I feel priviledged to have witnessed the sight and saddened by the pointless loss of the dove.

[valleyforge]

I wasn't around last night to see this thread and this morning it makes for a very disappointing read ... not so much for the fact that the dove perished, but because the responses the OP received when asking for advice, were so devoid of empathy for the fate of the dove.

That saddens me, because it appears that for at least some members of WAB, as far as 'wildlife' is concerned, the 'wild' continues to be of more interest to them than the 'life'. A great pity then that k4t3 only got the benefit of input from those individuals.

To me at least, it is pretty clear that there are only two courses of action in a situation such as this:

a) do nothing ... and content yourself to be a bystander to the often harsh workings of nature. It is clearly not the right course of action to interfere with any bird of prey (or another natural predator) after it has brought down a dove. Perhaps too in this case, it was unwise to remove the bird from imminent predation by the cat, which would surely have quickly ended its suffering, and had it been a feral animal might well have also been in dire need of a meal ... however that is mere conjecture.

b) remove the bird from immediate harm ... this is what k4t3 chose to do, before asking us for advice. However, whenever you choose to interact with nature in that manner, you immediately put yourself in a situation of dilemma, both morally and, let's not forget, legally too. By taking an injured bird into your care you temporarily assume legal responsibility (under the Animal Welfare Act 2006) for its welfare as a 'protected animal' to an extent equal to that placed upon you by ownership of any animal.

At that very point therefore, the dove became a 'casualty' and rightly deserved to be considered and treated as such. All other conjecture therefore should have become secondary to the immediate welfare of the dove.

Now it is obvious that not everyone will possess either the wit or the ken to know how to assess the extent of the injuries, or to deal directly with them ... however, whilst recognizing our own limitations, it is just not enough to believe 'there is nothing more I can do' is the same as 'there's nothing more that can be done' for any casualty animal.

Every registered vet in the UK is required by law to operate an out-of-hours contact number, and to provide appropriate treatment in alleviating the suffering of any animal (including wildlife) presented to them. So a quick call to the local vet might have been the best suggested course of action.

The vet might well have euthanased the bird, but only after a proper examination of its injuries ... and for the bird the end would have then been both quicker and comparatively pain free. More likely than not, this procedure would also have been done without charge.

If the vet had a close working association with a wildlife rehabilitator, then perhaps he/she might have concluded that the bird could have been patched up, fluids replaced, its wounds dressed, antibiotics administered, and then turned over to the rehabilitator to oversee its recovery and eventual fully recuperated return to the wild.

Please then, when giving advice to someone on this forum seeking advice on how to deal with a wildlife casualty, try to ensure that ALL the available options are considered.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by valleyforge

I wasn't around last night to see this thread and this morning it makes for a very disappointing read ... not so much for the fact that the dove perished, but because the responses the OP received when asking for advice, were so devoid of empathy for the fate of the dove.

That saddens me, because it appears that for at least some members of WAB, as far as 'wildlife' is concerned, the 'wild' continues to be of more interest to them than the 'life'. A great pity then that k4t3 only got the benefit of input from those individuals.

To me at least, it is pretty clear that there are only two courses of action in a situation such as this:

a) do nothing ... and content yourself to be a bystander to the often harsh workings of nature. It is clearly not the right course of action to interfere with any bird of prey (or another natural predator) after it has brought down a dove. Perhaps too in this case, it was unwise to remove the bird from imminent predation by the cat, which would surely have quickly ended its suffering, and had it been a feral animal might well have also been in dire need of a meal ... however that is mere conjecture.

b) remove the bird from immediate harm ... this is what k4t3 chose to do, before asking us for advice. However, whenever you choose to interact with nature in that manner, you immediately put yourself in a situation of dilemma, both morally and, let's not forget, legally too. By taking an injured bird into your care you temporarily assume legal responsibility (under the Animal Welfare Act 2006) for its welfare as a 'protected animal' to an extent equal to that placed upon you by ownership of any animal.

At that very point therefore, the dove became a 'casualty' and rightly deserved to be considered and treated as such. All other conjecture therefore should have become secondary to the immediate welfare of the dove.

Now it is obvious that not everyone will possess either the wit or the ken to know how to assess the extent of the injuries, or to deal directly with them ... however, whilst recognizing our own limitations, it is just not enough to believe 'there is nothing more I can do' is the same as 'there's nothing more that can be done' for any casualty animal.

Every registered vet in the UK is required by law to operate an out-of-hours contact number, and to provide appropriate treatment in alleviating the suffering of any animal (including wildlife) presented to them. So a quick call to the local vet might have been the best suggested course of action.

The vet might well have euthanased the bird, but only after a proper examination of its injuries ... and for the bird the end would have then been both quicker and comparatively pain free. More likely than not, this procedure would also have been done without charge.

If the vet had a close working association with a wildlife rehabilitator, then perhaps he/she might have concluded that the bird could have been patched up, fluids replaced, its wounds dressed, antibiotics administered, and then turned over to the rehabilitator to oversee its recovery and eventual fully recuperated return to the wild.

Please then, when giving advice to someone on this forum seeking advice on how to deal with a wildlife casualty, try to ensure that ALL the available options are considered.

with respect VF this is precisey what i did while giving the advice above - it is my considered opinion that transporting a mortally wounded animal to a vet for euthanasia subjects it to a far higher degree of stress and suffering than being struck imedeately on the head.

It strikes me that your diatribe does not actually seek to consider all the options so much as to imply that an injured animal should always be taken for treatment regardless of the finders assesment of its injuries or its probable chances of recovery.

It saddens me that you are quick to jump to insulting and inaccurate assumptions about the members who sought to give advice just because they do share your (somewhat biased) world view

[squeek]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

Sparrowhawks have to kill to eat there for by interrupting them you could prevent them getting a very much needed meal and could die as a consequence..
Squeek you would be better off trying to stop local cat strikes on wildlife.

In this case its hard as WW said it would probably not survive anyway..

hi Kayleigh, we have seen the hawks recently all they do is fly over the garden into another. so they wont starve as there is plenty other places around for them to find food. and yes i do keep an eye on any cat that enters my garden, if i think it will get a bird i will shoo it off.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by squeek

hi Kayleigh, we have seen the hawks recently all they do is fly over the garden into another. so they wont starve as there is plenty other places around for them to find food. and yes i do keep an eye on any cat that enters my garden, if i think it will get a bird i will shoo it off.

Glad to here it

We get Sparrowhawks in our garden I love to see them we don't get cats as the dog chases them away..

[squeek]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

Glad to here it

We get Sparrowhawks in our garden I love to see them we don't get cats as the dog chases them away..

we used to have a dog, he got very annoyed at anyone else in his garden.