Bop

[Beekeeper]

Whilst out in the forest this afternoon, i watched a BOP circling in the distance, too far away for a decent photograph, it was making a call like a Buzzard would and it did look like a Buzzard but for one thing, as it turned i could see the very tip of the undersides of the wings were white, i know Buzzards do have a lighter underside to their wings but this was quite marked, it was also solitary which to me is fairly unusual as i normally see them in pairs or even up to six in one part of the sky.

I am fairly certain Buzzards once they find a mate keep it for life as Jackdaws do and as this was obviusly no first year hatchling it did seem odd to see it all alone in that area.

Perhaps someone could shed some light on the subject for me as it would be appreciated.

BK

[Picidae]

If it was calling like a Buzzard and looked like a Buzzard, it probably was one!

As you say, plumage varies greatly. Buzzards tend to show white/unmarked 'hands' at a distance with only the darker areas on the carpel patch visible. When the sun catches them, the wing tips can look very white indeed. It's not unusual at all to see Buzzards on their own either - especially outside breeding season.

(not sure how you can say it ''obviously'' wasn't one of this year's young birds when it was too far away for you to know what the species was?! - Was it moulting/not moulting?)

[Beekeeper]

Originally Posted by Picidae

If it was calling like a Buzzard and looked like a Buzzard, it probably was one!

As you say, plumage varies greatly. Buzzards tend to show white/unmarked 'hands' at a distance with only the darker areas on the carpel patch visible. When the sun catches them, the wing tips can look very white indeed. It's not unusual at all to see Buzzards on their own either - especially outside breeding season.

(not sure how you can say it ''obviously'' wasn't one of this year's young birds when it was too far away for you to know what the species was?! - Was it moulting/not moulting?)

Many thanks for reply Picidae, you have confirmed what i thought and explained it nicely as well and yes my last bit about first year hatchling was probably a bit rash thinking about it, the year passes so quickly one tends to forget that breeding season finished some time ago, so maybe it was a young bird, it was far away and i couldn't say if it was in moult or not.

BK

[Jonners]

Here's one I saw this afternoon. I presume it's a youngster, and there were two other buzzards circling together nearby, but much higher. This one started calling as it flew in their direction.

[willing to learn]

Originally Posted by Jonners

Here's one I saw this afternoon. I presume it's a youngster, and there were two other buzzards circling together nearby, but much higher. This one started calling as it flew in their direction.

Not a 2009 youngster as it is in the process of moulting primaries and secondaries in various stages of growth. A good clear image.
Regards
Colin

[Picidae]

Hi Jonners

Nice pic. I'd say this one is a 3cy/subadult with active moult. Note the short and faded retained outer juvenile primary (p10) - as 3cy/older Buzzards have two moult centres in their primaries (since unlike many raptors they replace all their flight feathers in one season) which are always serially descendent (ie. from P10-P1), we can see a newly moulted P9 (with a second moult front on the inner primaries) whereas P10 has been left unmoulted. (It's the retention of the very outer most primaries along with the second wave of moult on the inner primaries (and a rather thin subterminal tail band) that separates this bird from a full adult but makes it older than a juvenile or second year bird (the latter age groups also showing streaked body and underwing with a more diffuse trailing edge to wing and no serial/second wave of moult fronts on the primaries. (Probably clear as mud!)

[Jonners]

Originally Posted by Picidae

Hi Jonners

Nice pic. I'd say this one is a 3cy/subadult with active moult. Note the short and faded retained outer juvenile primary (p10) - as 3cy/older Buzzards have two moult centres in their primaries (since unlike many raptors they replace all their flight feathers in one season) which are always serially descendent (ie. from P10-P1), we can see a newly moulted P9 (with a second moult front on the inner primaries) whereas P10 has been left unmoulted. (It's the retention of the very outer most primaries along with the second wave of moult on the inner primaries (and a rather thin subterminal tail band) that separates this bird from a full adult but makes it older than a juvenile or second year bird (the latter age groups also showing streaked body and underwing with a more diffuse trailing edge to wing and no serial/second wave of moult fronts on the primaries. (Probably clear as mud!)

Thanks Colin and Picidae. P, I'll try and dissect the mud when my brain is a bit more awake, but I think I get the message - Colin, I too am willing to learn

[willing to learn]

Originally Posted by Jonners

Thanks Colin and Picidae. P, I'll try and dissect the mud when my brain is a bit more awake, but I think I get the message - Colin, I too am willing to learn

Cheers Jonners I am a bit more basic with my posts, i never write an essay when a line will suffice Never been a big writer or reader.This site has been, and still is a great help to me in my hope to understand photography some great folk on here that give up their experience and advice.
Regards
Colin

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by willing to learn

... I am a bit more basic with my posts, i never write an essay when a line will suffice
Colin

I presume that was yet another rude and rather sarcastic dig at me Colin? I honestly can't imagine what your problem is other than you find those who you think have as much (or more knowledge than you, heaven forbid!) a threat in some way? If I receive any more sarcastic comments or swipes from the sidelines from you on this forum I shall be very publicly requesting for your membership to be frozen. It makes for very unpleasant reading and totally unnecessary and unwarranted, especially when you seek to involve other members in complicity.

I contribute to the bird threads (and others on WAB) because I enjoy sharing my experiences/learning with others, I enjoy helping out with identifications if I can and as far as I know, I've not done so in a way to attract the repeated negative behaviour I (and others!) have witnessed from you on this forum in recent months. I also have enjoyed learning from others on WAB, particularly in relation to other wildlife.

If my posts are too long and complicated for you to read, then don't read them. It's as simple as that. No one is asking you to. So cool it OK.

[willing to learn]

Originally Posted by Picidae

I presume that was yet another rude and rather sarcastic dig at me Colin? I honestly can't imagine what your problem is other than you find those who you think have as much (or more knowledge than you, heaven forbid!) a threat in some way? If I receive any more sarcastic comments or swipes from the sidelines from you on this forum I shall be very publicly requesting for your membership to be frozen. It makes for very unpleasant reading and totally unnecessary and unwarranted, especially when you seek to involve other members in complicity.

I contribute to the bird threads (and others on WAB) because I enjoy sharing my experiences/learning with others, I enjoy helping out with identifications if I can and as far as I know, I've not done so in a way to attract the repeated negative behaviour I (and others!) have witnessed from you on this forum in recent months. I also have enjoyed learning from others on WAB, particularly in relation to other wildlife.

If my posts are too long and complicated for you to read, then don't read them. It's as simple as that. No one is asking you to. So cool it OK.

Its not about you at all. I struggle to write, and type slow And to be honest if anything I think perhaps you have it the wrong way round. But its like water of a ducks back to me. Lifes to short. I like to think I am not rude. I freely use my real name (my choice) and do not hide behind a keyboard. There is an option to block me, and i can block you so we can't see what each other has written, perhaps we can agree to do that. And as for my knowledge it is limited, I am not academic at all, and have a more practical approach on life. Perhaps we can sort this out via PM I am pretty easy going and quite a nice chap and willing to sort this out privately. Plus the others I have upset can do the same.
Regards
Colin Pass