Hen Harriers destroyed at Trough of Bowland

[acherontia]

This was brought to my attention on another forum.
It sounds as though this was the only surviving nest of currently breeding birds. According to this info the adults haven't been seen either.

Now I wonder who would do a thing like that.........

Hen Harrier Disaster on United Utilities Land | Raptor Politics

Any comments welcome as long as they are rational and not too offensive!

Acher

[FUDGEY]

I hope the penny pinching UU people that made the decision not to extend the contract take a long hard look in the mirror. They should be ashamed of themselves. Total incompetence. I guess there would have been a good chance even if he had waited until they had fledged the chances are they would have been blasted from the sky anyway. These estates that have dodgy reputation or that have been proven to be involved in illegal activities should be made to pay for a full time wildlife officer to work on their estate. If wrong doing has been done or if it looks very suspicious then this would eliminate or greatly reduce such sick goings on.

[Jim Ford]

There weren't any junior members of the Royal Family or their mates in the vicinity by any chance, were there?

Jim

[acherontia]

Fudgey - it makes one wonder if UU really care at all doesn't it? Considering what me/you/others pay that goes towards 'someone's' profits and pay I really wouldn't mind them putting a little money in to pay for a warden or patrol the place properly.
The permanent officer idea is appealing. Better still if these grouse shooting business people operated on a revokable licence that was subject to independant monitoring? Just one shot in the dark (excuse the expression) from me.

Jim - It wouldn't surprise me. Or some son or other of a faded pop star that feel they are above the law when they storm the Houses of Parliament......

Come to think of it - what did happen there? Was it put down by some kindly judge as 'High Jinx' that would be grown out of by the little rascal?

Acher

[captaincarot]

i'm all for storming the houses of parliament. we should do it more often brandishing lit torches and pitch forks.

in fact we could do it now and demand that they introduce your licensing law idea.

[solus]

Originally Posted by captaincarot

i'm all for storming the houses of parliament. we should do it more often brandishing lit torches and pitch forks.

in fact we could do it now and demand that they introduce your licensing law idea.

Not right now - they're all on holiday.


Orf up north shooting a few grice, eh?


Licensed or not, I don't see how, with no actual evidence (as in shot or poisoned corpses) anyone could ever prove how these birds came to disappear or who was responsible? No UK Court can base a conviction on supposition or suspicion and the culprits are far too (I really don't want to call them clever or smart) clued up to leave the evidence lying about to be discovered.

Finding that the warden's contract had expired and some bureaucratic penny-pinchers were too stingy to extend it must have been a real gift for someone.

I may have got this wrong, but wasn't there some serious research done a few years ago that proved that Red Grouse and Hen Harriers can co-exist on a well-managed moor without there being a significant loss of Grouse chicks?

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by solus

I may have got this wrong, but wasn't there some serious research done a few years ago that proved that Red Grouse and Hen Harriers can co-exist on a well-managed moor without there being a significant loss of Grouse chicks?

It was called the 'Lagholm Project' the results of which caused a great deal of debate. Hen harrier numbers peaked in 1997 at 20 pairs, red grouse declined and grouse shooting ceased. Depending on who you listen to harriers were the cause of the decline . . . or had nothing to do with it!

A new project - Langholm Moor Demonstration Project - started in September 2007. Have a look here for more details:

Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust - red grouse

Cheers
Jonathan

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

It was called the 'Lagholm Project' the results of which caused a great deal of debate. Hen harrier numbers peaked in 1997 at 20 pairs, red grouse declined and grouse shooting ceased. Depending on who you listen to harriers were the cause of the decline . . . or had nothing to do with it!

A new project - Langholm Moor Demonstration Project - started in September 2007. Have a look here for more details:

Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust - red grouse

Cheers
Jonathan

I just had a look at the graphs .... not very convincing in my view .... 1997 had max hen harriers and also an upturn in red grouse. Both declined thereafter .... I wonder what part of the cycle the red grouse where in ... they have a natural cycle too based on disease (or parasites).

[Nightranger]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

It was called the 'Lagholm Project' the results of which caused a great deal of debate. Hen harrier numbers peaked in 1997 at 20 pairs, red grouse declined and grouse shooting ceased. Depending on who you listen to harriers were the cause of the decline . . . or had nothing to do with it!

A new project - Langholm Moor Demonstration Project - started in September 2007. Have a look here for more details:

Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust - red grouse

Cheers
Jonathan

It is true that both sides have picked over the data to provide grist for the mill, as it were. However, the most convincing factor that is often overlooked is that there was significant enviornmental change in the area during the study (indeed, it was a major reason for the study taking place). Basically, habitat loss was a more significant factor in grouse declines and it was never conclusively proved that harriers were causing a significantly higher predation pressure on the grouse. Ironically, there was evidence for a slight pressure increase on moorland songbirds but again, this could equally have been caused by environmental pressures.

[Nightranger]

Originally Posted by Nightranger

It is true that both sides have picked over the data to provide grist for the mill, as it were. However, the most convincing factor that is often overlooked is that there was significant enviornmental change in the area during the study (indeed, it was a major reason for the study taking place). Basically, habitat loss was a more significant factor in grouse declines and it was never conclusively proved that harriers were causing a significantly higher predation pressure on the grouse. Ironically, there was evidence for a slight pressure increase on moorland songbirds but again, this could equally have been caused by environmental pressures.

I forgot to say that advocates of shooting often overlook the simple fact that it is very rare for a single factor to be implicated in specdies declines. This is one of the biggest headaches facing conservation because it is easy to start chasing what seems to be the most significant factor only to find that there is something else hiding behind the hedge.