Time Travel Question

[stevensi]

Hi Guys,

A strange question to ask I know but I have always thought what birds would we see in our local patch if we could back 100 years ago. I live in a city so I’m sure the local patch I go to would be much wilder so I’m sure there would be more to see.

Over the last few years we have heard of massive declines in the songbird population so does that mean there would be huge numbers to see back then? It’s something I’d love to know.

Although at the same time if we could go back there would be some species that even though fairly common now we wouldn’t see back then; I’m thinking of Collared Doves, Little Egrets, Cattle Egrets and ring necked parakeets. (Anybody know of other species that were not about back then but are about now).

A silly thought I know but what do you guys think?

[tcvarlh]

I suppose it would depend on where you 'patch' is. Some places would certainly have less wildlife. I'm thinking of the Black Country especially, there was a great deal of muck in the air 100 years ago.
h

[loripo]

Where I live in London it was very 'dark satanic mills' up until the seventies when a lot of the old buldings were pulled down. All I can remember is lots of sparrows, which I loved and miss, pigeons which I could do without, and seagulls that came inland in winter. Of course the blitz may have driven a lot out of town. I am amazed now when I see herons fly past my window (6th floors up!) and the cormorants diving in the river. I think here we'd have to go back pre industrial revolution, then we'd have the falcons and the nightingales that used to be here, and I'd be sitting in the middle of marshlands. I really would love to see the old London rivers as they were then. The Wandle was once described as ' the transparent blue Vandalis' and it now goes under a huge shopping centre at one point before it gets to the Thames via a so called Cleansing station

[Jim Ford]

I've often thought that if we took a Victorian naturalist to one of our 'flagship' reserves, they would be horrified and say "but where are all the butterflies, birds and wild flowers?".

Our expectations are being constantly driven downwards. Wildflowers that were commionplace in Victorian times are now jealously guarded and thier locations kept a secret. I can envisage a time when dandelions will be caged, they will be so rare and precious!

Jim

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by loripo

I really would love to see the old London rivers as they were then. The Wandle was once described as ' the transparent blue Vandalis' and it now goes under a huge shopping centre at one point before it gets to the Thames via a so called Cleansing station

There's a very interesting book about London's hidden rivers. IIRC in earlier times the river Fleet was described as 'sparkling' - but now it's just a culverted sewer!

Jim

[loripo]

Yes - I have that 'Lost Rivers of London' by Nicholas Barton. The Westbourne that was used to create the Serpentine lake in Hyde Park now runs over Sloane square tube station in a metal box! We must be the most destructive of creatures. It is a case of 'you dont know what you have till its gone'.
I was actually looking to see if I could find out how many birds etc had gone out of existence in my lifetime, then I decided it would be too depressing.

[Tringa]

An interesting thought, but it is difficult to get a reasonable perspective.

Perhaps a bit unusually I've lived in the same house for the last 28 years so can give a view, but it is only on this very small area of East London.

When we first moved here the common species in the garden were house sparrow, starling, blackbird. We would here tawney owls virtually all year, kestrels were common too, house martins arrived every spring. Nearby lakes had mallard, coot and moorhen, but herons were rarely seen and then they were very shy.

Now there are a few less sparrows, almost no starlings. I haven't heard an owl for two or three years, and there have been no house martins for probably longer. Sparrowhawks are seen regularly, if infrequently, whereas for many of the early years here we never saw any. There is now rarely a week in the spring and summer when we don't hear and sometimes see a green woodpecker. The local ponds/lakes have herons by the bucketful, gadwall and little grebe, and even a couple of little egret.

I have no idea what this means in terms of the success of birdlife, if indeed it means anything. It is just an obsevation and I guess almost everyone else will have seen changes in their area too.

[loripo]

Going back to the original question about what wouldnt have been around, what about the Egyptian geese? We have them around London now in the Parks, but I'm not sure when they started to spread. They have an incredibly loud honk. When they fly they remind me of the mural from Tutankhamun's burial chamber, with the hunting of birds in the marshes.

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by loripo

Going back to the original question about what wouldnt have been around, what about the Egyptian geese? We have them around London now in the Parks, but I'm not sure when they started to spread. They have an incredibly loud honk. When they fly they remind me of the mural from Tutankhamun's burial chamber, with the hunting of birds in the marshes.

It's only really the last decade that Egyptian Geese have become really widespread around london, with just a few places such as Hampton court/Bushy Park area where i saw them before.

As a youngster I only ever saw them when I went to Norfolk. Now virtually every London lake has them.

Also in my youth Kestrel was about the only raptor I saw around London- there seem to be fewer of these now, but in addition we have Sparrowhawk all over the place, Hobby, Peregrine regular Buzzard in the outskirts + occasioanally seen over the city + Red Kite sightings not infrequent.

[RobSutton]

I think in the wider countryside the general intensification of agriculture and the loss of those poorly drained wet field corners means that we've lost lots of things like redshank, curlew, snipe and lapwing. The swop to autumn sown cereals has got rid of the rest of the lapwings, corncrakes and skylarks and reduction in hedgerows and small copses has probably done the same for lots of woodland edge birds. Sadly I don't think you'd need to go back 100 years to see a huge difference but probably only 30 - 40 years. But there would perhaps have been fewer raptors? Gamekeeping would have been at it height about 100 years ago so no buzzards or hen harriers in most of England (come to think of it that's still the case with harriers and probably for the same reason!).