Whitethroat

[riggy]

Hello all,

A while back I tried to identify a whitethroat to see if was common or lesser but the pictures I obtained were not the best. Today I managed to get some better pictures from around the same area. (No guarantee they are the same birds of course!) I now believe it is a common Whitethroat male looking perhaps a bit worse for wear. Please confirm or otherwise this ID.

Cheers

Paul

[Picidae]

I think I remember that earlier thread - and also remember suggesting it was a Lesser.

Have to say, I'm still seeing a likely Lesser here but the pics aren't much more help unfortunately - we need to see the side shape and also the wing coverts to be sure.

However, the bill looks small to me and the shape still dumpy! The legs also look very dark, despite my attempts to lighten the pic

compare these two (especially on bill shape)

lesser:

Galleriet - Netfugl.dk

Common

Galleriet - Netfugl.dk

with your pic below

[RoyW]

I have to agree that unfortunately this photo isn't really going to provide a conclusive ID - If many replies are given I can see opinions being split!

I know that it's not easy when you are learning, especially for birds like these which often only give brief views, but it may be easier to ID the bird in the field - the chestnut edgings to the wing feathers tend to be obvious on a Common Whitethroat when seen from the right angle (see the photo the Picadies link - & others, like those on WAB).
Stepping back and watching with binoculars won't help you get the shot that you want but it will help you look for, and learn, the features - and then when you do get a shot that we can confirm you will already know that you have the correct ID!

Good luck, and sorry that I can't be any help (I'm not going to suggest either species based on this photo!).

Roy.

Edit; Picadies Common Whitethroat photo doesn't actually show the chestnut wings very well - try this shot from the WAB Gallery.

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by RoyW

Edit; Picadies Common Whitethroat photo doesn't actually show the chestnut wings very well - try this shot from the WAB Gallery.

The intention of my links was to help with the current ID Roy - ie. the shape of the bill - although the link does show nicely the rufous wing panel (which unfortunately can't be seen on the original image hence me posting links which might prove helpful for this particular ID). As we know, a good birding ID practice is to look at other features of the bird other than the most obviously diagnostic one (rufous wing panel in this case), hopefully then people may be able to ID birds a little easier from odd and various angles (posting links of photos taken from the same angle is more helpful to this end too imo) when all features can't be seen in the field and also perhaps recognise the variation of plumage over the course of a one year moult cycle (posting links of birds taken in the same month/sex as the subject ID bird is of course also more helpful than birds in breeding plumage/different sexes/ages etc (it'~s a learning curve!)

Lessers have a smaller more pointy bill than a Common and straighter lower mandible which is narrower at the base than Common and that's what I see here.

I agree though, none of Riggy's pics provide enough for an absolute conclusive ID. You need more shots Riggy!!!

[RoyW]

I fully agree with all that you have said in your last post Picadie, and I realise that you were illustrating the points you made with your choice of images.

I was just trying to suggest that riggy might be able to ID the bird more easily in the field than we can from his photos (until he gets the right shot).
For anyone who is starting to learn bird ID the most obvious diagnostic features are always going to be the easiest to use - but once they have identified the bird from these they should always try and notice all other differences from other similar species (and from different plumages of the same species).
The link I posted was to better illustrate the feature I mentioned, the Common Whitethroats wing panel - which is shown at all times of the year. Your point about posting images that are taken at the correct time of year is 100% valid though. I have given myself a slap on the wrist and will try not to do it again!

Roy

[riggy]

Originally Posted by Picidae

I agree though, none of Riggy's pics provide enough for an absolute conclusive ID. You need more shots Riggy!!!

A few shots from today hope this helps


Hope this helps
Of course these may be different birds from other pics but were taken within about 100 yards or so

Paul

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by riggy

Hope this helps
Of course these may be different birds from other pics but were taken within about 100 yards or so

Paul

These are all Common Whitethroat. They might be the same birds but at this time of year especially, it's not unusual to get Common and Lessers in the same bush let alone in the same 100 yards or so! (I had 3 Common and 1 Lesser in the same bush yesterday - within the same 100 yard stretch, upto 12 Common and 3 Lessers)

I'm not convinced by a long shot it's the same bird as photo'd above - which, to my eye still looks better for a Lesser, with apparently dark legs and dumpier shape with proportionately large head cf. to Common.

You really won't get a positive ID on that first pic Riggy I'm afraid. All you can do is try and get more experience with seeing both species in the field - it gets easier - promise!

[riggy]

Originally Posted by Picidae

These are all Common Whitethroat. They might be the same birds but at this time of year especially, it's not unusual to get Common and Lessers in the same bush let alone in the same 100 yards or so! (I had 3 Common and 1 Lesser in the same bush yesterday - within the same 100 yard stretch, upto 12 Common and 3 Lessers)

I'm not convinced by a long shot it's the same bird as photo'd above - which, to my eye still looks better for a Lesser, with apparently dark legs and dumpier shape with proportionately large head cf. to Common.

You really won't get a positive ID on that first pic Riggy I'm afraid. All you can do is try and get more experience with seeing both species in the field - it gets easier - promise!

Thanks for looking Picidae I did think that these are common Whitethroats but it is nice to get confirmation. The birds in these pics look sleaker and not has dumpy, the legs are paler and the chestnut colour to the wing panel. Thanks also to Royw for his help. I have started taking my bins out again as well as the camera to try and get a better ID first.

Thanks again folks

Paul

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by RoyW

Your point about posting images that are taken at the correct time of year is 100% valid though. I have given myself a slap on the wrist and will try not to do it again!

Roy

lol that was just a general observation Roy regarding posting links to assist with ID threads and not directed at you at all, apologies if it came across otherwise - didn't even clock the time of year those pics in your link were taken as it happens! Also agree with all the points you make.

Glad at least Riggy, we've sorted out the last lot of pics without any difficulty

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by Picidae

lol that was just a general observation Roy regarding posting links to assist with ID threads and not directed at you at all, apologies if it came across otherwise - didn't even clock the time of year those pics in your link were taken as it happens!

No apology needed! It's a very good point to make and I wouldn't have been at all bothered if it had been directed at me - and I didn't think to check the time of year before I attached the pic.

Originally Posted by riggy

I have started taking my bins out again as well as the camera to try and get a better ID first.

If you are targeting anything specific with the camera it's always best to sit back and observe from a distance anyway - even if you know what the species is. Birds tend to have pretty regular routines, with many feeding birds working their way around a small(ish) circuit. If you watch for a while you can often work out exactly where the bird is favouring and identify a nearby spot, with some cover, that will let you get into position for that 'winning' shot!

Roy.