Gamekeepers, buzzards & snares

[valleyforge]

Thought you good people might be interested to read a blog by the chairman of the Scottish Gamekeeper's Association and his recent attempts to be allowed to 'control' buzzards : Chairman's blog | Scottish Gamekeepers

So much in there to be angry about, that I'll just bite my tongue for now and let you draw your own conclusions.

[earthdragon64]

As the pheasant poults are being kept in pens anyway, wouldn't it make sense to roof them? That way raptors wouldn't be able to get in to kill them.

From what I've seen fairly locally, the biggest cause of death amongst pheasants has to be road kill. The A95 north of Grantown-on Spey seems to be carpeted with dead pheasants at times, as do some of the nearby minor roads.

I've often thought this is exacerbated by estate workers just pulling into gateways and chucking food out in fields right by the roadside, encouraging the pheasants nearer the roads. Surely it would make more sense to feed them well away from roads, most of the estates have plenty of off-road vehicles.

[valleyforge]

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

As the pheasant poults are being kept in pens anyway, wouldn't it make sense to roof them? That way raptors wouldn't be able to get in to kill them.

From what I've seen fairly locally, the biggest cause of death amongst pheasants has to be road kill.

I think you are absolutely right on both counts, earthdragon.

[Jim Ford]

I know of the location of 3, shed sized Larsen traps in the Cairngorms.

Jim

[tcvarlh]

Although I find his 'business' reprehensible, I understand his fear for his livelihood. However, I'm sure he could utilise his vaunted human brain to defeat a bird. Why does this fool of a chairman not simply cross hatch his pens with wires? Any Buzzard getting in would be trapped and then he would have his culprit. The other Buzzards would notice the trapped birds' distress and leave the 'danger' area alone. This system works abroad so I'm certain Scottish Buzzards are just as smart!
Personally, culling 12 Buzzards merely so that each £30 twelve-bore target come dinner he breeds stays safe, is immoral and disgusting. Could we not simply remove pheasants, a foreign species, from Britain? This would cure many problems. The poults would not be 'terrified', they would not 'starve in the undergrowth' and the Buzzards would have a wider dietary variety. Oh, I had also forgotten this, the 'oiks' that blow terror-struck driven birds out of the sky would have to find something intelligent to do with their lives.
I cannot comment fairly on his gripe about snares, I see a snare I destroy it. I do not care if this is vandalism and illegal. Snares are foul, full stop; anyone using them should be placed in one and allowed to struggle to death. There is no way I can be convinced a snare could ever be humane.
His remarks about gamekeepers and poison are illogical, of course it has to be a gamekeeper, who else would carry poison into the countryside; no townie would bother. Most Townsfolk have never seen an Eagle and wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between one raptor and another. Generally Townsfolk return home and are astounded they have seen a damned great bird!
h

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by tcvarlh

I cannot comment fairly on his gripe about snares, I see a snare I destroy it. I do not care if this is vandalism and illegal. Snares are foul, full stop; anyone using them should be placed in one and allowed to struggle to death.

this has been discussed to a fare the well already and i'm not going into the snare question again, but i will say this - you say that you dont care that your actions are ilegal based on your beliefs

how does that differ ethically from a gamekeeper who doesnt care that his actions in perscuting raptors are illegal because he believes he is doing the right thing ?

the short version is that it doesnt - and people who commit acts of criminal damage against leglly set snare lines (or for that matter larsen traps etc) are not doing their cause any good as it simply provides ammunition to porteay all conservationists as extremists

[tcvarlh]

Ethically, on the grounds, eeyore, that a snare in an inanimate lifeless man-made article NOT a living breathing creature. To compare the two actions is incomprehensible and anathma. A snare can be made in minutes, that which it destroys cannot. I am offended to be labelled as a 'conservationist'. I am not interested in causes or lobbies. My actions are personal and mine alone. I do not set traps or snares. The arguments for them leaves me cold.
yours,
h

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by tcvarlh

Ethically, on the grounds, eeyore, that a snare in an inanimate lifeless man-made article NOT a living breathing creature. To compare the two actions is incomprehensible and anathma. A snare can be made in minutes, that which it destroys cannot. I am offended to be labelled as a 'conservationist'. I am not interested in causes or lobbies. My actions are personal and mine alone. I do not set traps or snares. The arguments for them leaves me cold.
yours,
h

yes but that is your opinion

my point was that because of your opinion (that the law is wrong) you are happy to break it

a (minority of) gamekeepers feel that the law protecting raptors is wrong in their opinion so does that give them licence to break it ?

I respect your right to hold a different opinion on snaring and I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise (as that has been discussed many many times before)

but i dont respect the advocation of breaking the law (by any party) just because they dont agree with it - that way lies anarchy, the law on criminal damage is clear as those that interfere with property on game estates , nature reserves, or elsewhere are likely to find out the hard way sooner or later.

To be clear i do not support the control of raptors to protect gamebirds though i can understand why he feels the way he does - but the way to alter their practice is to open dialogue with landowners and keepers and persuade them to try non lethal methods first, which isnt going to happen if people destroy their property and then try to claim the moral highground for such illegal behaviour.

and finally I didnt label you as a "conservationist" I was pointing out that the consequence of your actions are not limited to you alone , but will be used by the keeper/landowner interest groups as amunition against conservationists and antis generally.

[tcvarlh]

I have not advocated anything eeyore. I assumed it was a given that my post was my opinion. Purely my opinion and yes, if whilst destroying a snare I was to be discovered then I would accept the consequences. I would not stop destroying them though. Snares are an evil. Again this is my opinion, by which I stand. As for the idea my destruction of these items is a step towards anarchy eeyore, well it maybe, but hang it all, a little anarchy would be a good thing in a land with too many irrational laws and regulations. One man’s anarchy is another’s freedom!
Perhaps we should simply agree to differ on this.
h

[Jim Ford]

About 3 years ago I found a gin trap on a wall on the Invercauld Estate in the Caingorms. Haven't they been illegal for years? Still, as I've previously mentioned, owners of large estates will do as they damn well please - and there's nobody going to stop them!

Jim