Fed up with cats

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by BloomingMarvellous

Dogs Kill people

A good point. If a dog is off a lead and, in this example killing cats - children may be included too. Dogs are, generally, more aggressive hunters. Generally they would chase cats, but not the other way around. Proof enough.

Though we shouldn't necerssarily have to, maybe this thread would have more point by becoming a base for members to post tips on deterring cats, than what it is now. Saying 'I dislike cats/cats' owners because' isn't going to achieve anything but alienating different members. Posting tips, etc. might just help.

[aland]

You are right, perhaps some one can explain to a cat owner that as taken on a twelve year old cat how to explain to that cat it must only go to the toilet in its owners garden or not do anything else that people hate, that cat would be set in its ways like me or any one else, To say we are irresponsible is silly, and this is what people including jim ford are saying, you will find cat lovers are just as responsible as any one else, i have had cats for sixty years a dog is different it takes commands easily, i am sorry if i have upset jim or any one else but this is true, aland,

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by aland

You are right, perhaps some one can explain to a cat owner that as taken on a twelve year old cat how to explain to that cat it must only go to the toilet in its owners garden ... i have had cats for sixty years a dog is different it takes commands easily, i am sorry if i have upset jim or any one else but this is true, aland,

Perhaps you could throw a bucket of water at it every time it tries to leave the garden

[aland]

Yes perhaps i could, but i would no longer be a cat lover if i did that, a cat is its own master, jim could not see that, i do under stand the frustration of non cat owners and would change things if possible, i do not have fall outs with my neighbors over my one cat that goes walkabout's, they have been long term neighbors perhaps this is it, i help them they help me, i was hoping to make my peace with the people i upset by standing up for cat owners, this thread as brought out the worst in people including me, sorry to all concerned, aland,

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by aland

It would appear that this forum is full of self centered people and i will not be part of a community that produces so much hate for a animal that behaves exactly as it is meant to, I do not hate magpies or all the birds of prey that keep killing birds in our fields or garden i just take it to be part of life as simple as that, i would not consider shooting a buzzard each time i see one killing a pigeon, i have never considered chasing away one breed of bird from my bird table just because it bullied another, this forum appears to be full of hatred for one animal so why call it a nature site for britain, i will not insult the normal minded people on it but it is full of bigots, aland,

Alan, It is easy to see that you have a genuine love for animals, but it is very difficult to reconcile that with the thoughts that you are quite happy for domestic cats to be allowed free-rein to go about satisfying their natural instincts.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed, and you appear to believe that other posters attempts to make you realise this is bigotry and hatred of cats.

From what I've read here, this couldn't be further from the truth. I don't think anyone here "hates cats", they just hate the fact that irresponsible cat owners don't control those cats.

Cats are hunters, as are the many predatory animals and birds which are part of Britain's wide and varied wildlife. But - and it is a very big but, cats are an introduced species, and they are maintained at an artificially high level of population relative to the natural habitat.

To compare the actions of domestic cats with foxes, or birds of prey is nonsense, because the populations of those wild creatures is destined by the habitat and their ability to obtain food sources within their range of movement. The high populations of domestic cats don't need to find food - it is literally given to them on a plate. But the fact that they don't need food, won't stop them hunting. It is instinctive behaviour.

If you carefully read what people are saying, they are not cat haters. I am not a cat hater, I have kept and loved my cats. What people are saying is that cats will do what cats will do, and it is the cat owners responsibility to have 100% 24hr a day control of where the cat is, and what the cat is doing.
Is that bigotry against cat owners? I think not.

Emphasis is not being placed on other pets, because this thread was originated about cats, and I cannot think of any other domestic pet which is owned in such numbers, and which is left to its own devices by so many of its owners.

As a general point, I think that comparing loose cats to loose dogs (specifically with respect to the hunting instinct) is a non starter. The vast majority of domestic dogs would just roam around scavenging food rather than directly hunt for it, and with the possible exception of dogs kept in rural areas, would have little in the way of quarry to hunt anyway. And to say that dogs are killers, especially of people, is taking the thread into the realms of fiction.

Fighting and hunting dogs are trained as such by their warped owners, but any such attack by a dog on a human, is "National News", and we only hear of such things very very infrequently. (I digress. The subject of fighting/hunting dogs is best kept for another thread).

Perhaps Jason has made the most valid point here. The thread will indeed continue to go round in circles, because those cat owners who are irresponsible, (and I am by no means tarring all cat owners with the same brush), will continue to deny that their uncontrolled animals are causing any sort of problem.

Regards,
Mike.

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by aland

Yes perhaps i could, but i would no longer be a cat lover if i did that,

I had a cat for many years Alan when I was younger - she'd go on walkabout but had a bell round her neck, was kept in at night (always!) and not let out until way past dawn. She killed a House Sparrow right in front of me once. She was nearly 12years old at the time and the first time I'd ever witnessed her kill anything. Goodness knows how many she had over the years I hadn't witnessed, until then, I believed she was one of those 'my cat doesn't kill birds'. I vowed never to get another cat.

I don't hate cats, I hate what they do - water does no harm whatsoever to them - it's a very good deterrent. But if people don't want to throw water at their own pets, that's ok, I understand their reticence, I'll just do it for them if they come into my garden. I never had fall outs over my neighbours when I had a cat, but then my neighbours didn't have a garden dedicated to feeding and nurturing young birds and my cat wasn't a Tom that sprayed all over their garden creating a g*d awful stink. If I knew who this particular cat belonged to, I'd do something more about it. I have my suspicions it belonged to a rather chaotic young lady who simply let it go feral a few years ago as a kitten because she couldn't be bothered to move to a property where she had access to her own garden and used to let it jump out of the first floor window onto the garden adjacent to mine. She got fed up trying to call it in from her window. She didn't feed it properly. She used to shut it out on the window ledge despite it crying to be let in. Not all people are cat lovers, including some who own cats. I called the RSPCA once for her neglectful treatment of it.

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

those cat owners who are irresponsible, (and I am by no means tarring all cat owners with the same brush), will continue to deny that their uncontrolled animals are causing any sort of problem.

Regards,
Mike.

or if they are, will argue that it doesn't effect overall bird populations anyway so it's something we can/should put up with!

[RogerTheCat]

Originally Posted by MrLouKnee

no cats = more rats

more rats = several dodgy diseases

You can put down poison to get rid of rats

[motnworb]

Originally Posted by aland

how selfish you are being by expecting owners of a animal that as been born with a inbuilt instinct to hunt to be able to control them when they are away from home

aland, please refer back and read my first post, its on page 3 of this thread.


In that thread I specifically point out that the very thing you say is impossible to expect people to do with their pet cats, we expect dog owners to do. You say you are yourself a dog owner, I will be certain that you walk it on a lead, you stop it chasing cattle and sheep and I imagine you don't put it out to roam by iteslf. These would all be very 'instinctive' behaviours for a dog to do, just the same as they are for your cat, why is it acceptable for your cat to do them but not your dog?

Lancashire Lad also makes a lot of sense in his post above and points out that this isn't an attack on people who like cats or cats themselves.

Also, you keep refrring to natural predators like birds of prey and magpies in this discussion about pet cats, again I would refer you to my post on page 3.

Read it and think about it, don't take it as a personal attack on cat owners or you specifically. There is never any shame in at least being prepared to see the other side of a discussion.

[Jim Ford]

I'm afraid we're all wasting our time here - 'aland' just doesn't 'get it', and as I said before epitomises the worst sort of cat owner!

Jim