some kind of bird of pray!!

[mountainbiker]

hello i live in the bolton area nw england, I went for a ride on what used to be an open cast mine the coal board have filled it in and made loads of little ponds most of which are full of bullrushes, within these bullrushes were loads of little (i think they were some kind of finch or maybe a tit) then as i rode towards one of the ponds a medium sized almost black bird smaller than a kestrel swooped down and almost picked off one of the finches then chased another one...what was it do we have sparrow hawkes on bolton near a small town? was it a perigrine?
any ideas? think it had rounded wings with a little tip on the leading edge of the wings and a skinny tail


thanks, leon


.....see not all mountain bikers are just out to destroy the land!!

[Tursiops2]

Hi mountainbiker, welcome to WAB.
Sparrowhawk is the best candidate - the males are slightly smaller than kestrel, a slate-grey colour which can look quite dark in the right light, the hunting behaviour you describe is typical, the habitat sounds good, and they're quite common now in urban fringes. Other (unlikely) possibilities would be Hobby or Merlin.
T2

[dunlin]

Most probably a male sparrowhawk, and yes you do have them in Bolton
have a trip round the woodland at rivington and anglezarke, Its not to far from you and theres plenty sparrowhawks round there
also peregrines in darwin near the big square factory chimney (dont know what its called)

keep on biking

regards mark..........

[Picidae]

Well I suppose we could go through the whole gamut of small BOP as T2 has done. However your description could fit several species. Size is deceptive. In fact, most people over estimate size of BOPs at a distance but tend to underestimate the size at close range when they are hunting. Male Merlin and Hobbies can look very dark grey almost black in flight as do Peregrine. Both Merlin and Hobby both hunt small birds as do Peregrine and Sparrowhawk (although Merlin really are very small (thrush sized) with exceptionally pointed wings. Hobby frequently will hunt for dragonflies low over reed beds (unlike Sparrowhawk) and that, on habitat alone, would be my first guess - they will also chase birds if the opportunity arises during the course of hunting dragonflies over reeds and tend to swoop 'out of nowhere'. The flight then is more leisurely with wing tips appearing blunter and it's not unusual to then see them give a prolonged chase up into the air. (The hunting behaviour is typical of most of the species mentioned btw - most of them swoop down and pick off small birds!)

[ChrisJB]

Male sparrowhawk for me.

Regards, Chris

[mountainbiker]

Originally Posted by dunlin

Most probably a male sparrowhawk, and yes you do have them in Bolton
have a trip round the woodland at rivington and anglezarke, Its not to far from you and theres plenty sparrowhawks round there
also peregrines in darwin near the big square factory chimney (dont know what its called)

keep on biking

regards mark..........

i go up rivvy and anglezarke a lot biking, the only reason i noticed this bop is cos it was so close and so near to home, and it didn't swoop down it swooped up it seem to come out of the bullrushes, was still nice to see 1/4 mile from home!!

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by ChrisJB

Male sparrowhawk for me.

Regards, Chris

So how are you ruling out a Hobby? Given the reed bed habitat and it's also a summer visitor in the Bolton area?

Bolton Museums - Peregrines nesting in Town Hall clock tower leave an egg for the museum collection

[aeshna5]

I would also say male Sparrowhawk (though not possible to be 100% without photo) on the size ( though not always easy to evaluate, especially for relatively inexperienced observers), but the rounded wings to me also suggests Sparrowhawk( not a feature I would associate with Hobby, which I see regularly where I live).

Both species are equally likely in the habitat seen.

[Tursiops2]

Originally Posted by Picidae

So how are you ruling out a Hobby? Given the reed bed habitat and it's also a summer visitor in the Bolton area?

Mountainbiker mentions "rounded wings", which suggests Sparrowhawk. Must admit, though, I hadn't realised Hobbies had got so far into the NW. Doing well, aren't they? Lovely birds, good job they don't take pigeons

[Mark3]

Sounds like a male Sparrowhawk to me, but im no expert

Dunlin - The big square factory chimney in Darwen is India mill

[mountainbiker]

thanks for all the suggestons i almost have my mind made up but tomorrow night if its nice i,m gonna take my camera and try and get a pic. its been many years since i went bird watching i used to live bordering masses of fields and woods, i gonna buy a book and see what i can see, if i get a good picture i'll post it!!
by the way i had never eard of a BOP called a hobby!
catchas later, leon

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by Tursiops2

Mountainbiker mentions "rounded wings", which suggests Sparrowhawk. Must admit, though, I hadn't realised Hobbies had got so far into the NW. Doing well, aren't they? Lovely birds, good job they don't take pigeons

I agree ''rounded wings'' would favor an accipiter. However, Hobbies can look surprisingly rounded winged when in hunt/chasing birds and especially when feeding on dragonflies on the wing. But as Mountainbiker (hi!) indicates, he is unable to separate a falcon species from a hawk and has never seen a Hobby, so not sure how ''rounded'' rounded means and compared to what?!

Take a look at these two images
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1002/...g?v=1190145391

http://www.birdpix.nl/album_pic.php?pic_id=22462

Mountainbiker also observed (presumably because their were fairly prominent) the alula wing. This to me suggests that falcon can not be ruled out. In my experience, it is the falcons that tend to use the alula more than accipiters in active flight when hunting as it's this that gives wing dynamics of high speed chase and turn.

I'm not suggesting the BOP in question was not a Sparrowhawk, simply making the point that, based on the lack of further details/photo, one can not say it was with the degree of conviction some were appearing to do so in response to the Mountainbikers ID request. Yes, Sparrowhawk is just as likely as a Hobby/Peregrine, both on hunting technique and habitat.

[Jonathan]

The o/p's bird sounds like a spar to me. Both the hobbies in the links have been captured stalling in flight (capturing insects), neither pic shows a typical flight shape of a hobby, which generally appears to have pointed wings. Hobbies are far from common in the Bolton area, closest place to see them on even an irregular basis is probably the mosses west of Salford, though they can be seen on an almost daily basis a few miles further west at Risley Moss at the moment. The bird I saw there last week was a 2nd summer female, so probably not breeding in the area.

Cheers
Jonathan

[mountainbiker]

right the camera is charged i think i better go have a look before this forum all start breaking out in war!!!
watch this space!!

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by Picidae

So how are you ruling out a Hobby? Given the reed bed habitat and it's also a summer visitor in the Bolton area?

Bolton Museums - Peregrines nesting in Town Hall clock tower leave an egg for the museum collection

I'm not ruling it out, it is just what I think. I know that area pretty well, and hobbies are at very best infrequent (I am aware that most birds can fly I must add). Red footed falcon has turned up two summers in a row I think a few years back near Anglezarke as well. Who knows? But still male sparrowhawk for me.

Regards, Chris

[mountainbiker]

2 hours sat on a rock camera poised no sight of the little blighter, saw some huge dragon flies though!!

[mountainbiker]

Originally Posted by mountainbiker

2 hours sat on a rock camera poised no sight of the little blighter, saw some huge dragon flies though!!

The RSPB: Advice: Sparrowhawk deterrents