Interfering with nature...

FUDGEY · #1 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 05:02 AM

Probably setting myself to be gunned down by some again, but would like the forum members thoughts on this. Most years at this time I feel the need to do this. Yesterday was a high spring tide and if I do not intervene many waders nests would get flooded. Yesterday I went round the nests I know on a mile or so stretch of beach and lifted the eggs that I knew would be flooded out just before the tide covered them. The eggs are marked with a felt pen (1st nest all eggs number 1, 2nd no 2 etc) and put back in the nest about 20 mins later once the tide has turned. Yesterday 3 Oystercatcher nests, 3 Ringed Plovers and a meadow pipit were saved. I had to repeat this through the night last night and probably again today. Breaking the law again, but I know at least 3 of these nests are about to hatch any day now and I was not letting them get destroyed if i could help it. Right or wrong?

hobble · #2 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 06:51 AM

Sorry Fudgey..........WRONG.

I know you are trying to help but nests are protected to allow birds to breed without human intervention. They may never learn to build their nests in an appropriate place if interfered with.

FUDGEY · #3 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobble

Sorry Fudgey..........WRONG.

I know you are trying to help but nests are protected to allow birds to breed without human intervention. They may never learn to build their nests in an appropriate place if interfered with.

Hobble I totally respect your views on this. Im sorry, but my conscience just wont allow it to happen. I see your point about learning to build in appropriate places, but they never do. Year in year out nearly every nest gets flooded. There are some areas (not close to the road) that I cant cover and the same thing happens every year so these birds arent learning. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. It will give me great pleaure in the next few days going down to the estuaray with the binos and scanning the mud flats seeing theses young birds knowing that it was me that saved them. We are all different in life and its just the way I am.

larachmor · #4 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobble

Sorry Fudgey..........WRONG.

I know you are trying to help but nests are protected to allow birds to breed without human intervention. They may never learn to build their nests in an appropriate place if interfered with.

Again, this is a matter of common sense.
Illegal ? Yes
Would you be prosecuted if caught ? No.
The law is there to protect birds from the irresponsible.

Jenny W · #5 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 07:46 AM

I'd love to give my opinions in this thread Fudgey, but after our slight altercation last week I'm not sure that I dare!

I would like to know though are you doing all this work on behalf of someone, or are you just doing it on your own? If you are doing it on behalf of someone can you say who - do you work for a conservation organisation, a landowner, local council? If you are just doing it on your own, have you considered seeking advice from the BTO nest record department? They should be able to provide some sort of training/useful info which may help you decide on best practice and you can also register yourself with them as a nest recorder and send in your nest records each year which will be fed into the national database.

Fieldfare95 · #6 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 08:18 AM

I think you are right to do that.
Although it is against the law, you are doing it for the welfare of the birds, and that is why I think it is right.
Without your intervention, many eggs would destroyed.

FUDGEY · #7 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 08:23 AM

hi jenny, no hard feelings on my part. I respect your input and it's healthy to get varying opinions even if we do not agree with each other at times. I am doing this of my own back at the mo, but I have been involved in nest recording/ringing in the past and your post has made me consider getting involved again. I have just started getting back into wildlife seriously after a few years so ty for putting that in my head. As for the nests the shingle beaches always get covered due to the low gradient so the plovers/ oystercatchers etc would have to nest in the grasses above to avoid being wiped out. Birds are clever, but it is in these birds instincts to nest on the shingle and I'm afraid this is what they always do so they are doomed from the off unless I intervene. I have been successful in doing this every time so I don't feel the need for outside help. If I was prosecuted so be it, but the local constabulary and wildlife officers all know me and my interest so I know nothing will happen.

FUDGEY · #8 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 08:29 AM

can I just pose a question here for the people who are against interfering with nature. Take for example the andrean condor. Without human intervention this bird would if not now would certainly become extinct. Would you rather they were left to get on with it and die out for ever more?

Adam Cheeseman · #9 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

can I just pose a question here for the people who are against interfering with nature. Take for example the andrean condor. Without human intervention this bird would if not now would certainly become extinct. Would you rather they were left to get on with it and die out for ever more?

I think you are referring to the Californian Condor as the Andean Condor is relatively common throughout the Andes. The Californian Condor however has been saved from extinction by human intervention, BUT, it was direct human interference that caused its dramatic near extinction decline in the first place.

I can appreciate you feel what you are doing is right, but you can't do it fro every nesting wader, and has already been said these, presumably young or subordinate breeding pairs, will never learn through experience about nesting in the right or wrong places.

As someone working in the profession I never interfere unless it is an incident caused by humans or man-made obhects. I know this is a line that most Rangers etc. take.

Cheers,

Adam

eeyore · #10 (**permalink**) 27-05-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

I think you are referring to the Californian Condor as the Andean Condor is relatively common throughout the Andes. The Californian Condor however has been saved from extinction by human intervention, BUT, it was direct human interference that caused its dramatic near extinction decline in the first place.

I can appreciate you feel what you are doing is right, but you can't do it fro every nesting wader, and has already been said these, presumably young or subordinate breeding pairs, will never learn through experience about nesting in the right or wrong places.

As someone working in the profession I never interfere unless it is an incident caused by humans or man-made obhects. I know this is a line that most Rangers etc. take.

Cheers,

Adam

although that said if there are very rare birds involved i know of sites that do interfere with nature to protect the birds (protection of stone curlew or terns from predators for example)

also a lot of sites provide floating rafts etc for waders to nest on, thus negating the flooding possiblity.

On the whole i think fudgeys intentions are laudable but would be more comfortable with them if they were on behalf of an organisation - there is also the possiblity of causing the parents to desert by interfering with the nests , and of possible disturbing the whole nesting area while intervening to rescue one nest.