What is the law regarding the shooting of birds at this time of year?

[Gaina]

I would like to know what the law is regarding the shooting of Magpies and Crows at this time of year. Is it legal for certain species and not others?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Gaina

I would like to know what the law is regarding the shooting of Magpies and Crows at this time of year. Is it legal for certain species and not others?

magpies and crows (and rooks, wood pigeons and sundry others) are covered by the general licence under the Countryside and Rights of way act 2000 and can, with good reason, be shot by the landowner or his agents at any time - their young can also be killed and nests destroyed.

birds on the game register ( pheasant, grouse, patridge etc) can be shot during their open seasons but not at other times.

while birds not on either list can only be shot by special licence from natural england (common examples being herons, cormorants, some types of gull etc)

[wildliferescuer]

As far as I am aware, if corvids are causing problems e.g. damage to crops etc non-lethal methods of deterring them have to be used first. Licences to shoot magpies & crows are now only issued if the landowner can prove that there is no non-lethal alternative to the problem.
The onus is on the shooter to prove that there is no alternative.

[Gaina]

Originally Posted by eeyore

magpies and crows (and rooks, wood pigeons and sundry others) are covered by the general licence under the Countryside and Rights of way act 2000 and can, with good reason, be shot by the landowner or his agents at any time - their young can also be killed and nests destroyed.

birds on the game register ( pheasant, grouse, patridge etc) can be shot during their open seasons but not at other times.

while birds not on either list can only be shot by special licence from natural england (common examples being herons, cormorants, some types of gull etc)

OK, thanks for the info.

I hate being a crow-lover who lives next to someone who hates them. I could sort of understand his actions if he lived on a farm, but he doesn't and I don't even think they've got any veg in this year.

I feel like I'm in a dilemma now. The jackdaws come and feed on my bird table and I get great pleasure from their antics, but if it means the run the risk of being shot I would rather not feed them. Unfortunately the neighbours in front put out a smorgasboard for the birds at this time of year, which attracts them anyway.

[salukiwhippet]

Non-lethal methods do not have to be tried, the 'authorised person' just has to be satisfied that they would be impractical or ineffective.

Licences are not issued on an individual basis, rather as an Open General Licence each year. Basically it covers all the species on Sched.2 Pt.2 of WACA 1981. There is some variation between England, Scotland and Wales, starlings for example.

James

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

Non-lethal methods do not have to be tried, the 'authorised person' just has to be satisfied that they would be impractical or ineffective.

Licences are not issued on an individual basis, rather as an Open General Licence each year. Basically it covers all the species on Sched.2 Pt.2 of WACA 1981. There is some variation between England, Scotland and Wales, starlings for example.

James

Originally Posted by wildliferescuer

As far as I am aware, if corvids are causing problems e.g. damage to crops etc non-lethal methods of deterring them have to be used first. Licences to shoot magpies & crows are now only issued if the landowner can prove that there is no non-lethal alternative to the problem.
The onus is on the shooter to prove that there is no alternative.

james has the right of this - where birds are covered by the general licence the shooter does not have to prove that there is no alternative , nor do non lethal methods have to be tried. The only provisos are that the shooter has to have the landowners permision , have a good reason ( e.g damage to crops. livestock, protecting endangered species), and "be satisisfied that non lethal methods would be ineffective"

in practice i cant think of any non lethal method that would be both practical and effective against corvids over a wide area so this last is a bit of a pro forma in this case

also the shooter has to comply with the firearms act provisions (e.g ensuring spent/missed rounds dont go out of the land in which he has permision to shoot , not shooting across rights of way etc), and only humane methods may be used ( basical shooting or larsen traps and if shooting rifle, 10ftlbs + air rifle, or shotgun - not air pistol, underpowered air rifle or bow)

I suspect that what wildlife rescuer is thinking of is when the landowner applies for a special licence to kill birds not covered by the general licence (e.g heron) here they do have to demonstrate that non lethal methods have been tried and were ineffective before such a licence will be granted.

[Gaina]

Thanks for all the answers . I am in a delicate position because I live with my parents and whilst I personally don't give a hoot what the neighbours think of me, I have to consider my parents who generally have good relations with all of them. I had something to say about it to my Dad this afternoon when we were in the garden and this person had their gun out. If I started making noises now they'd know it was me and as I say my parents don't deserve any repercussions there may be to my actions. I just wanted to get it straight in my own mind weather I was right or wrong regarding the law.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Gaina

Thanks for all the answers . I am in a delicate position because I live with my parents and whilst I personally don't give a hoot what the neighbours think of me, I have to consider my parents who generally have good relations with all of them. I had something to say about it to my Dad this afternoon when we were in the garden and this person had their gun out. If I started making noises now they'd know it was me and as I say my parents don't deserve any repercussions there may be to my actions. I just wanted to get it straight in my own mind weather I was right or wrong regarding the law.

note that the provision of the general licence does mean he has to have a good reason, just shooting them in his garden because he doesnt like them is not sufficient and is thus illegal ( unless he can demonstrate that they are causing him loss, damage or significant nuisance.) - if you dont want to get involved you could make an anonymous call/letter to your local police wildlife liaison officer, who can have a quiet word with your neighbour without getting you involved.

[eve miles]

Hello everyone - just to add some further queries to this discussion - yesterday I had a very nasty encounter with a land-owner (farmer) about a magpie trapped in a small cage with an 'inner', circular cage within it, barely big enough for the extremely distressed bird to move in. Obviously being rather niaive about this practice I thought the trap, which was near a waterway and small lake, was intended for something else - ie a mink as we do have a water-vole population around here and this part of the land of the farmer in question appears to be somewhat, possibly, geared towards encouraging wildlife with a number of long, rough grassland areas, woodlands, the man-made lake etc. As I was passing by on a right of way over the farmer's land I thought I would go and speak to him about the trapped bird, completely unaware that this was a deliberate practice. The response I got was irate and malicious and he immediately labelled me as 'one of them' when I pointed out that the bird was in a state of extreme distress and that if was his intention to kill it then he ought to do so and put it out of it's misery and end it's distress. He said, with an angry curl of his lips, that magpies were 'vermin' and he killed them along with foxes who were also 'vermin'. I pointed out that his land gave the impression of him being a wildlife-lover but that I had clearly been wrong about that as anyone who was so disregarding about the suffering of any animal, however that animal might impact on his business (the farmer said he was killing the birds because they stole eggs) could hardly call themselves a wildlife-lover. I am quite familiar with the fact that a number of species are culled for conservation purposes but my own view, and based on the comments made here, is that the 'culling' should be carried out humanely and with the least suffering possible, if culling is the only port of call for the individual or organisation concerned. My query is threefold - 1. is this type of cage a legal one? - the whole thing is circular, made of mesh like chicken-wire, there is a kind of 'trap-door' which obviously leads the bird to a bait of some sort and he then ends up in the central circular cage which is tiny. 2. is there any kind of time limit on how long a bird or any other animal can be left in a cage before being shot ? 3. what is the law around shooting a gun ? - if you need a licence to own and use a gun what /if any kind of training do you have to undergo to use a gun? ie do you have to learn to shoot a target accurately and effectively or is there little or no training of this kind? The impression I had from this farmer was that he hated the stated animals so much he possibly would not care how much suffering he inflicted in the process of their deaths. I can understand that some farmers must experience a lot of problems in the face of the uncheckable activities of certain wild animals, but hatred of this sort added to a legal 'right' to kill them seems a recipe for engendering pointless suffering and then perhaps even more opportunistic behaviour from the remaining members of those animal populations whose members have been culled (nice way of saying killed). As a nice finishing touch the farmer told me to get off his land - as I pointed out there is a legal, right of way - waymarked- through some of his fields - or he would 'have me'. He must have thought I was going to release the magpie from the cage. Does anyone happen to know if swans nest on the ground? I know that there are swans, ducks, and geese on the waterways there and wondered if this was perhaps why the farmer was so agitated - is a magpie likely to predate eggs from the nests of these birds?
Apologies for this long preamble!
Thanks very much,
Eve

[werdnal]

Sounds like this was a Larsen trap or perhaps a home made variety of similar design.

Maybe one like this:

http://www.solwayfeeders.com/product...1399-c184.html

(This page also gives info on how they are legally used).

The "trapped" bird is there to lure in other Magpies who are territorial, and they will then enter the outer part of the cage to try to drive off the captive bird, only to get trapped themselves. The farmer would then "cull" the trapped bird, then continue to use the lure for another one.

One of our neighbours in into Field Sports and he often has a magpie in one of his aviaries. In order for the "lure" bird to attract others to the trap, it has to be a stranger to the area, so our neighbour presumably loans his bird to others to use in traps on their land, then takes it back again when they are finished with it.

I don't agree with the practice, but it is legal and I don't think there is a "closed season", so any time of the year is within the law. The only requirements are that the "lure" bird is not stressed - has food, water and shelter from the elements. If the bird was out in the open (without any shelter), and had no food and water, then there is cause to report it. Not sure who to, but DEFRA might be a good starting point, or the Wildlife protection officer at your local police station.

Magpies are considered vermin, and do predate wildbird nests, taking eggs and fledglings. Swans and waterfowl do nest on the ground, but magpies will take from tree nests and bird boxes given the chance. Do you know if the farmer in question had game birds - ie was raising pheasants on his land for shooting. Magpies are often controlled for this reason.

Sadly I don't think there is much you can do about it. The farmer would need a shotgun license, but these are easy to get and most would abide by the requirements. If you feel the farmer was threatening towards you, then report him to the police, but controlling vermin, be it magpies, foxes or rats on their own land is their perogrative, although I do feel that this time of the year, when there are likely to be dependant youngsters, taking adults of any species is cruel.