Kingfisher anywhere in Surrey

[superblue]

Hi Guys.....

Do any of you know where there are any Kinfishers perching up I live in Thorpe Surrey & would love to get a photo of these wonderful birds..........I have a one man seat hide, so if you could point me in the right direction where you have seen any sitting somewhere that is photographable that would be great

Martin

[RoyW]

Hi Martin,

If you do find any Kingfishers near you it would be best to leave the photography until the autumn. Kingfishers are a 'schedule 1' species which means that you need a licence to photograph them at or near the nest (even if you have a hide) - and as mentioned in a recent post you may not know that you are near the nest!

Once the breeding season is over I would suggest that you find yourself a quiet area where Kingfishers are present and spend time getting to know their habits - they often do have favoured feeding spots but are usually easily disturbed. Good Luck!

Roy.

[BillyPilgrim]

Is that the Thorpe where the old RMC (now Cemex) headquarters is? I used to work there!

As to Kingfishers, have you ever been to Halliford Mere and Lakes? They are supposed to have them resident/breeding and its only down the road from you.

I didn't know it existed when I used to stay in your area so I can't vouch for it, but it looks promising on the website.


Halliford Mere Lakes & Pavilion :: The Lakes

[superblue]

Thanks for the info Roy

Billy..............I went there last year & it's basically a fishing place & restaurant, I had to ask the guy if I could go in & try a get a pciture, he said yes but didn't seem to welcoming, I think you have to be a member or have a fishing permit

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by RoyW

Hi Martin,

If you do find any Kingfishers near you it would be best to leave the photography until the autumn. Kingfishers are a 'schedule 1' species which means that you need a licence to photograph them at or near the nest (even if you have a hide) - and as mentioned in a recent post you may not know that you are near the nest!

Once the breeding season is over I would suggest that you find yourself a quiet area where Kingfishers are present and spend time getting to know their habits - they often do have favoured feeding spots but are usually easily disturbed. Good Luck!

Roy.

I would strongly suggest you take this advice as its very good advice

[JeffH]

Martin,

I know you're not going to want to hear this but I too suggest that you take Roy's very good advice .

Incidentally, I note that you asked the same question in your first WAB post last October and, with all due respect (and in my personal opinion), anyone who has to ask where to find Kingfishers probably does not have sufficient knowledge of these shy and easily disturbed birds to be able to photograph them - particularly during the breeding season - without causing them some disturbance and running the risk of committing a criminal offence

Here's an extract from my own website which covers the point in more detail -

********************* PLEASE REMEMBER *********************
Kingfishers and Barn Owls are just two of the relatively uncommon species afforded the highest degree of legal protection under Schedule 1 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. If you “intentionally or recklessly” disturb a Kingfisher, Barn Owl or any other bird listed in Schedule 1 whilst trying to photograph it “in, on, at or near” the nest or whilst it has dependent young, and without the necessary Licence from Natural England, you may be committing a criminal offence punishable by a fine of up to £5,000 and/or a prison sentence of up to 6 months.
************************************************** ********

I have held Schedule 1 Licences from Natural England to photograph Kingfishers and Barn Owls at their nest sites for several years now, though I should emphasise that such licences are site specific.

Since I first started publishing some of my Kingfisher images on the internet (on various birding, wildlife and photography websites) and elsewhere, I have received a steady stream of requests for information on how/where to find Kingfishers and how to photograph them. Several people have even invited themselves to accompany me on visits to some of the Kingfisher nestsites I know of and apparently without any thought what so ever of the potential impact that my allowing such visits might have on my Schedule 1 Licence status!

It seems many non-specialist bird/wildlife photographers and others with a general interest in wildlife are simply unaware that a number of species of birds and other creatures are afforded special protection under the UK's wildlife laws which, in effect and without the appropriate licence from Natural England, make it a criminal offence to "intentionally or recklessly" disturb certain birds for the purpose of photography (or any other purpose) whilst they are "in, on, at or near their nest" or whilst they have dependent young - see the red reminder at the top of this page.

The legislation concerned is contained within the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and Schedule 1 to that Act contains the full list of bird species given special protection - see
Natural England

The Licensing authority under the legislation is Natural England (for England only - different licensing agencies operate in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) and licences are issued on a strict quota system and only to those who can demonstrate their knowledge of the breeding ecology of the species concerned and the necessary photographic skills and fieldcraft to enable them to undertake nest photography without causing undue disturbance to the birds - for more detailed information on the procedure see - Natural England - Page not found

The Licence application procedure is considered by some to be quite onerous but, in my view and with the increase in interest in wildlife photography in this digital age, it forms an essential part of the measures required to protect our rarer species from nest disturbance.

Offences against the legislation are often investigated by the RSPB's Investigations Unit and I am told by a member of that Unit that disturbance offences are certainly on the increase. Where an offence is considered to have been committed the matter is usually referred to the Police for further investigation and possible prosecution and with most County Police forces now having their own Wildlife Crime Officer.

Unfortunately, for many general photographers a Kingfisher seems to be just another subject and, whilst I always like to be helpful when asked for help or advice, I'm afraid I do take the view that if someone needs to ask how or where to find Kingfishers then they probably do not have anything like sufficient knowledge of the species to be able to photograph it without causing disturbance. Kingfisher nests can be very difficult to locate and, during the breeding season, it is all too easy for someone to cause disturbance at a nest site without even knowing that they are doing so!

My standard response to such requests is that with ALL wildlife photography the wellbeing of the subject must always come first and that before attempting to photograph anything other than common or garden species it is worth conducting some research into your intended subject's habits and behaviour. Oh, and if you're going to photograph a Schedule 1 species 'at or near' its nestsite, do get yourself the necessary Licence!

Jeff
(Schedule 1 Licence holder for Kingfishers and Barn Owls)

[BillyPilgrim]

Originally Posted by superblue

Thanks for the info Roy

Billy..............I went there last year & it's basically a fishing place & restaurant, I had to ask the guy if I could go in & try a get a pciture, he said yes but didn't seem to welcoming, I think you have to be a member or have a fishing permit

How about Bedfont Lakes then? I'm sure if you stick to the hides you wouldn't be breaking any laws. You might be able to get some advice from one of the WAB members (Adam Cheeseman?) who works there.

I'm not an expert on Kingfishers or any other bird for that matter, but I reckon that it is possible to photograph them during the breeding season without breaking the law.

Just use common sense and stick to established hides.

I took hundreds of Kingfisher photos during last summer. All from the safety of a hide. I installed a perch which the birds became quite fond of using. The noise of the shutter didn't even bother them. They would stare straight down the lens at me. See example photo...


Kingfisher - Wild About Britain Pics

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by BillyPilgrim

..... but I reckon that it is possible to photograph them during the breeding season without breaking the law.

Just use common sense and stick to established hides.......

Absolutely right Billy - of course it's possible to photograph Kingfishers during the breeding season without breaking the law and the key is, as you say, to stick to established hides on nature reserves.

There are a number of reserves up and down the country with nesting Kingfishers but where it is perfectly possible to see and to photograph the birds without the risk of disturbance or of breaking the law in doing so, though you would presumably seek the reserve warden's consent before installing any of your own perches

My concern is where you have inexperienced bird/wildlife photographers (with or without their own hides ) who are on a quest to get a photo of a Kingfisher, wandering around nesting territories outside nature reserves but without knowing whether or not they are near a nest and who sometimes seem to be prepared to go to almost any lengths to get the shot they're after.

With the upsurge in digital photography and the number of comments on some of the photography websites about wanting to get a shot of a Kingfisher, I'm quite convinced that such people represent one of the biggest current threats to our Kingfisher population.

Jeff
(Schedule 1 Licence holder for Kingfishers and Barn Owls)

[BillyPilgrim]

Originally Posted by JeffH

There are a number of reserves up and down the country with nesting Kingfishers but where it is perfectly possible to see and to photograph the birds without the risk of disturbance or of breaking the law in doing so, though you would presumably seek the reserve warden's consent before installing any of your own perches

re. the perch - yes, normally you would get permission. I certainly wouldn't have dreamed about doing it at a 'managed' reserve. But the place I go has been anything but over the last few years. So much so that the few people to visit the hide have been pruning back the vegetation and installing feeding aparatus etc. But now that the breeding season is here and the Grebes/Herons/Kingfishers have started pairing up and nesting, nobody goes in front (lakeside) of the hide anymore.

I'm probably lucky as I'm yet to come across anyone who is reckless or irresponsible. Hope it stays like that.

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by BillyPilgrim

.....I'm probably lucky as I'm yet to come across anyone who is reckless or irresponsible. Hope it stays like that.

I hope so too Billy but sadly there are such people about as evidenced by these two extracts from the latest edition of 'Legal Eagle' - the RSPB's Investigations Newsletter issued to Police Wildlife Crime Officers and prosecutors, etc -

Caution for hen harrier
disturbance in Wales
A retired schoolteacher has received an official police
caution for the reckless disturbance of a pair of breeding
hen harriers on an RSPB reserve in central Wales.
On 24 June 2008, a member of the public was observed
by an RSPB Site Manager taking photographs of a pair of
hen harriers on the nature reserve. The pair of birds, which
were nesting close to a public footpath, were alarm-calling
and circling low over his head. The disturbance carried on
for about 30 minutes, by which time the Site Manager had
arrived and asked the man to leave.
During a follow-up search, the police, assisted by the RSPB,
discovered a diary indicating that the man had found the
breeding birds the day prior to the incident, and had even
made a note, “I’ll go back with my camera.”
The RSPB wishes to thanks Sgt Ian Guildford, PC Charleen
Jones and PC Emma Davies for their assistance in this
investigation.


£600 fine for white-tailed
eagle disturbance

On 6 October 2008, Alistair Waters of
Lee Crescent, North Aberdeen, was fined
£600 at Oban Sheriff Court for recklessly
disturbing a white-tailed eagle.
Waters was seen taking photographs
at the Mull nest site on 4 March 2008,
and an eagle was seen flying and
calling in a distressed manner. All eagle
nests on Mull are closely monitored,
and WCO PC Finlay Christine informed
the court an egg had been laid in the
24-hour period prior to the disturbance.
The nest subsequently failed.
Mull Eagle Watch is held every year.
Signs are placed all over the island and
a public hide allows visitors to view
the eagles without disturbing them.
White-tailed eagles receive special
protection under Schedule 1 of the
Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981,
and their nests are legally protected
all year round.
Sheriff Douglas Small said, “I have
to take into account the consequences
(to the birds) of this reckless conduct.”
RSPB Mull Officer Dave Sexton
also commented, “We welcome
responsible tourists to Mull. What
happened here wasn’t responsible,
it was reckless.”

and the first extract shows that one can't be too careful - even on a nature reserve

Jeff