Redpoll Confusion???

[Ruth Daniel]

Having seen my first Redpolls of the year yesterday,I found myself being thoroughly confused by my reference books when trying to ID them.
Collins has no mention of Lesser....only Common or Arctic (which I've obviously ruled out!)
Whereas my pocket guide has Mealy and Lesser listed but with no Common???

I think the birds we were watching were Lesser but am confused re the references???

Can anyone help please,this is one of the birds.....sorry about pic quality....it was snowing!!!!!

[rich ard]

This is a Lesser Redpoll which is the common one.

Mealy Redpoll, if my memory serves me correctly has been called 'Common' Redpoll. in the past. A bit like Black-headed gulls being more common in the Uk than Common gulls.

Arctic Repoll are a third redpoll species which are occasional visitors to the UK.

[Ruth Daniel]

Originally Posted by rich ard

This is a Lesser Redpoll which is the common one.

Thanks Richard.....but how come the 2 have separate latin names if they are the same??? Sorry for being thick???

Lesser = Cardeulis Caberet.
Common= Cardeulis Flammea.

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by Ruth Daniel

Having seen my first Redpolls of the year yesterday,I found myself being thoroughly confused by my reference books when trying to ID them.
Collins has no mention of Lesser....only Common or Arctic (which I've obviously ruled out!)
Whereas my pocket guide has Mealy and Lesser listed but with no Common???

I think the birds we were watching were Lesser but am confused re the references???

Hi Ruth

When the Collins ed that you're probably using was printed ie. any current edition, Lesser and Common Redpoll were conspecific ie. there were only two species of Redpoll, Arctic and Common. However, you will nethertheless see in your Collins that what is now known as the Lesser Redpoll is actually illustrated but regarded as a subspecies Carduelis flammea cabaret of Common Redpoll with Carduelis flammea (Common), as the nominate species which is illustrated to the right of the illustrations. On the same page below, Arctic, Carduelis hornemanni is regarded as a separate species.

Since the printing of the current ed. of Collins, Redpoll has been split into three separate species: 1. COMMON REDPOLL Carduelis flammea (which are from northern scandinavia) 2. LESSER REDPOLL Carduelis cabaret (which are from southern scandinavia, and western/central Europe) and the default species in the UK 3. ARCTIC REDPOLL Carduelis hornemanni (as the name implies from arctic/n.scandinavia).

To make matters even more confusing, there are also 3 races of Common Redpoll: (Divided by range rather than split in separate species!)

So:

Additionally COMMON REDPOLL, Carduelis flammea (since the split) is further divided into three races, namely Mealy Redpoll (Carduelis flammea flammea), which breed in a broad band across Scandinavia, the Baltic Republics south to east Germany and Poland, USSR and North America; (This is the one you're likely to see here with the Lesser Redpolls in winter). Greenland Redpoll (Carduelis flammea rostrata) from Greenland and Baffin Island and Icelandic Redpoll (Carduelis flammea islandica) from Iceland.

When the new edition of Collins comes out in May, it will show the up to date taxonomy of Redpolls (hopefully!) along with other taxonomic changes since the last edition.

Ps. Richard meant 'common' in terms of it's prevalence in the Uk cf. to Lesser Redpoll. Not 'Common' in terms of the species! Lesser Redpoll (C.cabaret) are more 'common' here than Common Redpoll (C.flammea)

[rich ard]

Thanks Picidea,

That is a much more informative reply than mine and helpful for me too!

Richard

[Pam_M]

Well done with the Redpoll and photo, Ruth! Nice one to see!

Thanks for the interesting info Richard and Picidae!

[Gill Catton]

I hate it... I am endlessly confused by the redpoll naming situation...... I am also not keen on chasing everything down to sub-species either as it just doesn't feel that relevant to me.

[Ruth Daniel]

Thanks for all the info Picidae.......isn't it confusing!!!
I'll list mine as a Lesser then.