Gurt hawk in the garden!

[FalconBirder]

Originally Posted by Picidae

All the photos you posted of Starling are irrelevant in terms of plumage.

Picidae, I'm disappointed that you found the Starling images I posted to be irrelevant. Particularly as you then posted images from July and August when the prey item in the original image was killed in October! I still don't have an answer to the simple question I posed, instead you've made a number of apparently incorrect assumptions to demonstrate some rather obvious points. No worries, it's quite clear from your verbose contributions that you're interested in assertion rather than debate so I'll bow out and leave you to it. Best regards to all, FalconBirder.

[Jason Green]

Hi,

On looking closer still, I think the big foot actually looks too big for the head in terms of scale. Too long, too! I am now going to suggest the sprawk was quite lucky and caught two birds; the jackdaw maybe harrassing a starling and then both getting caught by the sparrowhawk - the legs of the jackdaw (the rest out of view), the head of the starling

Originally Posted by Picidae

As for the feet, note the long thin toes of a Starling here:



And the feet of a corvid here:

The image used to compare feet is actually from a carrion crow, so may not be comparable... instead look at this full-body jackdaw shot from John:

[Picidae]

Originally Posted by FalconBirder

Picidae, I'm disappointed that you found the Starling images I posted to be irrelevant. Particularly as you then posted images from July and August when the prey item in the original image was killed in October! I still don't have an answer to the simple question I posed, instead you've made a number of apparently incorrect assumptions to demonstrate some rather obvious points. No worries, it's quite clear from your verbose contributions that you're interested in assertion rather than debate so I'll bow out and leave you to it. Best regards to all, FalconBirder.

You posed a simple question to ask why a Starling would have a black bill in October. I explained this with photo evidence to demonstrate that the black bill develops from post breeding ie. June onwards. The juvenile is irrelavant since the prey is obviously not a juvenile. The other Starling is in full winter plumage, again I explained why this wasn't relavant to a Starling still in the process of post breeding moult.

No worries, it's quite clear from your verbose contributions that you're interested in assertion rather than debate so I'll bow out and leave you to it. Best regards to all, FalconBirder.

I'm not quite sure what to make of this comment. My 'verbose' contribution was in response to addressing the lengthy points you made in response to a very short post from me. ie. ''the prey is a Starling''. (which wasn't actually addressed to you personally at all) As for being interested in ''assertion'' rather than ''debate'', not true. I'm happy to debate ID's with people but not with someone who contradicts every post I make on a thread as you have done today and yesterday on the Kestrel thread, for the sake of argument or as it seems in your case, with unfounded self-aggrandizing. I suggest you'd learn far more with a little humility rather than resorting to rudeness and throwing your dummy out of the pram!

Have a google, check the size of corvids vis a vis Sparrowhawks. The prey in this picture is tiny in comparison.

The bill of the prey in question is nothing like a Jackdaw or a Carrion Crow imo.

[Jason Green]

Self-aggrandizing... just had to look that one up

Probably best now to agree to dissagree

Where's Sometimes...

[Picidae]

Yes, 'Sometimes' would have presumably known that the prey item wasn't as large or larger than the Sparrowhawk!

Compare these for size
Iris

Blackbird and Sprawk
Iris

And a Starling from October! (Incidently it's only the very tips of the feathers on the head of a Starling that are actually buff, the rest are black. Only when the feathers are lying flat on the head is this clearly visible as the 'spotted' plumage. In a photo of the original quality, on a bird that is dead and was presumably very stressed beforehand, I doubt the head feathers would be so nice and neatly visible as to show much spotting at all!)
Spreeuw - Sturnus vulgaris | Waarneming.nl

Sparrowhawks are actually quite small birds up close. As I was trying to say on the other thread, size can be greatly overestimated with raptors as can be seen from the assumption made in the first post, that this was an abnormally large individual when in fact there is nothing at all to suggest such a thing. The lower than eye level angle of the camera makes it seem larger than it actually is.

If anyone has actually seen a Sparrowhawk on a corvid, including magpies and jays, they are at least as large as the predator, if not larger. Check out the other links I posted above of a Pigeon for example, another prey species that is as large as the bird eating it!

Apologies for being a little unpatient in the earlier post but to be accused of not wanting debate, and of making 'incorrect' assumptions (like what???) when one certainly has not, and to be repeatedly contradicted by the same member on two separate threads in as many days for no justifiable reason etc etc seems too much like trolling imo and I have little tolerance for it.