Question for London Birders about St James's Park wildfowl!

[SheffieldPete]

I've been asking on other forums about what London birders think about the St James's Park wildfowl, and which (if any) they would consider "acceptable" to put on a year/lifelist as genuine wild birds.

The consensus seems to be that (obviously!) the exotics such as pelicans, bar-headed geese, red-breasted geese etc. are not, and that the red-crested pochards and barnacle geese are also firmly part of the captive collection.

However there seems to be some disagreement as to whether the mandarins and ruddy ducks can be considered true Category C birds and "legal" to listers!

Are there any London listers out there that can shed any light?

[nakedgardener]

It's your list.... so you can make the rules

.....But captive birds aren't usually counted... (you could pop down to a pet shop and start counting them). There is a fuzzy line, but if a bird is living in a wild state, as part of a self sustaining population, then it's usually accepted as countable

Edit.. Also birds which have made it to Britain under their own steam.

[SheffieldPete]

Originally Posted by nakedgardener

It's your list.... so you can make the rules

.....But captive birds aren't usually counted... (you could pop down to a pet shop and start counting them). There is a fuzzy line, but if a bird is living in a wild state, as part of a self sustaining population, then it's usually accepted as countable

Edit.. Also birds which have made it to Britain under their own steam.

Exactly, I'm careful not to count captives/escapees, and it's that "self-sustainability" that I'm questioning... Cat C mandarins seem fairly common in London parks, but it's hard to know what are captives and what are "wild" in St James's... I should have checked their wings a bit more closely for clipping!

Plenty of mandarins around Sheffield to be found, I'm just being lazy really!

[KeenTeen17]

I get this a lot with plants. My local recorder will always ask the question "has it been planted" before he takes any botanical records off me. IMHO it doesn't matter if it has escaped or been thrown out of a garden. If it is surviving outside a garden then it counts for me.

A similar situation arose when my friend sent in a record for snakes head fritillary on a local environmental centre. He told a friend he had seen it and this friend goes: Oh did you go down south for that one? He said No I saw it just up the road. The friend then goes: its been planted though so its not the real thing. That plant has been there for 20 years, so in my and my friends opinion, it counts as a tick. I mean theres no point travelling the world to see fancy plants and birds when they have the exact same and most likely tamer birds in local parks like in St James. As long as you photograph them well enough, no-one can prove its a captive bird.

[nakedgardener]

You can never be 100% sure, especially with wildfowl... even the Mallards on London Parks could have quite a lot of domestic genes in them, or be genuine migrants from up North. Mandarins are on the British list, and are living in a wild state not far from London, The Pelicans hovever are undoubtedly not wild.

There's always a big debate when a rare duck turns up somewhere unexpected, there are many collections around that lose birds, or have free flying flocks.

I can remember watching a Baikal teal (usually found in Asia) a few years ago, which arrived in Mimsmere in autumn with a flock of common teal, it was shy and behaved like a wild bird. So it was assumed to be a genuine vagrant. Had it been on a city pond eating bread with the mallards it would more likely be an escape

[aeshna5]

Quite a lot of genuine wild birds amongst the captives- the Ruddies are as wild as any (left) in the country; not sure about the status of Mandarin there- check to see if these are pinioned, but it is a widespread, feral species in London. The Tufties, Pochard, Shoveler + some of Gadwall also wild there.