Swans and lead poisoning

[tufftie]

Was shocked to read in the local paper that all the swans around here have been moved to a wildlife sanctuary as they all have lead poisoning - some to quite a bad degree. Driving past where they congregate along with some geese I noticed that the geese seem to have gone to. The wildlife people are blaming the anglers for using illegal lead weights and the anglers are blaming it on the shooting that goes on round here.

[Les E]

HI Tuffti,
I admit I was a keen course angler in my youth.I fished for Pike in Loch Ken (Dumfries and Galloway)in the 70's.In fact Loch Ken is in The Guiness Book Of Records for the heaviest Pike ever caught in Britain in 1874 weighing in at 72lbs.I mainly used a spinner from a boat but also used lead.I dident know any better but what put me off fishing was a pike I caught a marvalous beast but was so deeply hooked and had to kill it.That and other of my fellow anglers leaving dead Pike on the bank to rot and discarded fishing gut laying everwhere made me ashamed to be a angler and Ive never touched a fishing rod for over 30years now.Since then Ive heard stories of Ducks swallowing discarded line and also Bats hanging dead from trees entanged in fishing gut.Ill never fish again thats for sure.
Regards Les

[Jez]

Lead Poisoning symptoms:-

Pain, constipation, nausea, drowsiness, vertigo, headache, irritability, breathlessness, burning in the throat, cramps and convulsions, lead is excreted by the kidneys at a slow rate.

If it affects a human this way then what it must be like for a swan.

[witham]

That's awful I thought it was almost a thing of the past

[Wild-Woman]

Swans and other wildfowl are really up against it sometimes. Another killer is botulism, if not treated quickly and appropriately.
I also understand that pine needles can become impacted in their throats, making feeding impossible. It must be a tough life.

[mantajohn9]

Lead shot for fishing has not been available to buy for years. The new shot used is now probably cheaper than lead so why would anyone use something that they would have to make themselves from a material that is more expensive and is known to cause such problems? Don't know about shooting. Anyone know why lead is used for shotgun pellets? Is it because it is a very dense material?

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by mantajohn9

Lead shot for fishing has not been available to buy for years. The new shot used is now probably cheaper than lead so why would anyone use something that they would have to make themselves from a material that is more expensive and is known to cause such problems? Don't know about shooting. Anyone know why lead is used for shotgun pellets? Is it because it is a very dense material?

I think the anglers must still have and use old lead shot, they just haven't bothered to replace it.

[Lincs Yellowbelly]

It really ticks me off that anglers "still" get blamed for lead poisoning, especially as its been banned for something like 20+ years now. I've never met an angler still using lead shot, especially as shot available now isn't at all expensive, probably cheaper to make and buy than lead.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by Lincs Yellowbelly

It really ticks me off that anglers "still" get blamed for lead poisoning, especially as its been banned for something like 20+ years now. I've never met an angler still using lead shot, especially as shot available now isn't at all expensive, probably cheaper to make and buy than lead.

How are the swans getting lead poisoned then apart from being shot.
If its not anglers..
I used to go fishing and use none lead shot that doesn't mean everyone does.

[Lincs Yellowbelly]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

How are the swans getting lead poisoned then apart from being shot.
If its not anglers..
I used to go fishing and use none lead shot that doesn't mean everyone does.

You litterally can't get lead shot anymore, lead weighs are only available in sizes over 1oz which is far to big for a swan to eat. Like I say i've never seen an angler using lead shot as it's just not available and the nature of shot means that you couldn't be using the same shot you was using 20 years ago as you lose it over time.

I don't know what the rules regarding lead shot for shooting are now??

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by Lincs Yellowbelly

You litterally can't get lead shot anymore, lead weighs are only available in sizes over 1oz which is far to big for a swan to eat. Like I say i've never seen an angler using lead shot as it's just not available and the nature of shot means that you couldn't be using the same shot you was using 20 years ago as you lose it over time.

I don't know what the rules regarding lead shot for shooting are now??

Just because you can't get lead shot any more it doesn't mean its not in someone's collection..I have rods line everything well over 20yrs old rotting away in the garage.

[Lincs Yellowbelly]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

Just because you can't get lead shot any more it doesn't mean its not in someone's collection..I have rods line everything well over 20yrs old rotting away in the garage.

But you are talking about the odd person here, lead poisoning is a collective disease, the odd person using it won't have a dramatic effect on a swan.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by Lincs Yellowbelly

But you are talking about the odd person here, lead poisoning is a collective disease, the odd person using it won't have a dramatic effect on a swan.

Well, I don't know how or where the swans are getting the poison from it was just a suggestion..Unless the lead shot it still in the environment.

[Lincs Yellowbelly]

Like i say it could possibly be through lead shot in shooting, although it is banned near waterways. I think cases such as this are very isolated these days and certainly not the norm.

[mh68]

The amount of lead shot discharged from one person`s shotgun cartridges in a single day`s shooting is probably more than one angler (if they still used lead - 99% dont)would lose in a lifetime.
It`s wrong to solely blame anglers when others are discarding lead shot (in larger quantities) near waterways too. I`ve watched pheasant shoots next to shallow estate lakes where lead shot was falling into the lake like rain.Any water bird sifting through the bottom debris for food couldnt help but digest lead shot aswell.
Lead under 1oz was banned years ago in freshwater fishing, it`s about time a suitable non toxic substitute was found for shotgun cartridges too.

Mark H

[mystic meg]

Hi All,

Long time no speak,very busy at wildlife hospital, couldn,t help but chip into this thread.
The most likely way that swans and other wildfowl fall victim to lead poisoning is because from the time when it was legal to use lead weights for fishing the lead that became detached from rods cannot break down in water so lays deep down in the silt of rivers and lakes, so when the wildfowl sieve through the silt they swallow bits of lead that can lead from mild symptoms to very severe lead poisoning depending on how much they have swallowed. Suspected lead poisoning can be determined by an xray, usualy the first signs of lead poisoning in swans is listlessness an a definate bending of the neck so it almost rest on its back but the swans head is still facing forward.

Treatment is by a course of injections of a drug called EDTA which counteracts the lead poisoning. Hope this helps.

[watsthat]

Originally Posted by mystic meg

Hi All,

Long time no speak,very busy at wildlife hospital, couldn,t help but chip into this thread.
The most likely way that swans and other wildfowl fall victim to lead poisoning is because from the time when it was legal to use lead weights for fishing the lead that became detached from rods cannot break down in water so lays deep down in the silt of rivers and lakes, so when the wildfowl sieve through the silt they swallow bits of lead that can lead from mild symptoms to very severe lead poisoning depending on how much they have swallowed. Suspected lead poisoning can be determined by an xray, usualy the first signs of lead poisoning in swans is listlessness an a definate bending of the neck so it almost rest on its back but the swans head is still facing forward.

Treatment is by a course of injections of a drug called EDTA which counteracts the lead poisoning. Hope this helps.

I think youv`e hit the nail on the head there Mystic Meg. Of course, there must be literally tons of the stuff down there in the mud. When I was fishing it was common practice to chuck your lead shot in the water at the end of the day but what about boats and their hull coatings/paint?

Pete

[mystic meg]

Hi Pete,

Something like that didn,t even occur to me as i don,t have alot to do with boats, ther must be some sort of safeguard in place?

The rescues we do are mostly on lakes and rivers and there is not alot of boat activity on there. Maybe someone else will answer your question

[Lincs Yellowbelly]

Originally Posted by mystic meg

Hi All,

Long time no speak,very busy at wildlife hospital, couldn,t help but chip into this thread.
The most likely way that swans and other wildfowl fall victim to lead poisoning is because from the time when it was legal to use lead weights for fishing the lead that became detached from rods cannot break down in water so lays deep down in the silt of rivers and lakes, so when the wildfowl sieve through the silt they swallow bits of lead that can lead from mild symptoms to very severe lead poisoning depending on how much they have swallowed. Suspected lead poisoning can be determined by an xray, usualy the first signs of lead poisoning in swans is listlessness an a definate bending of the neck so it almost rest on its back but the swans head is still facing forward.

Treatment is by a course of injections of a drug called EDTA which counteracts the lead poisoning. Hope this helps.

If that were the case then surely Lead poisoning would be far more widespread than it currently is, especially in waters that are fished alot. As it is cases are quite small and often limited to small area's.

[Jonathan]

If we're talking about the case in Bewdley, the person who suggested the poisoning came from shotgun cartridges was the local pub owner . . .

As swans can swim quite a distance and fly much further, it might be wise for Ms. Harrigan to prove that the section of the river she's so concerned about is the actual source of the poisoning before she starts campaigning for a fishing ban. If it isn't the source, then that source needs to be found before any more wildfowl die.

If there hasn't been a problem in this section of the river in the last twenty years since lead was banned in fishing, why on earth would it start now when practically no fishermen use lead?

And if I were a fisherman I think I'd be demanding the National Federation of Anglers or some such, hire their own vets to check out the corpses.

Jonathan

[mh68]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

If we're talking about the case in Bewdley, the person who suggested the poisoning came from shotgun cartridges was the local pub owner . . .

As swans can swim quite a distance and fly much further, it might be wise for Ms. Harrigan to prove that the section of the river she's so concerned about is the actual source of the poisoning before she starts campaigning for a fishing ban. If it isn't the source, then that source needs to be found before any more wildfowl die.

If there hasn't been a problem in this section of the river in the last twenty years since lead was banned in fishing, why on earth would it start now when practically no fishermen use lead?

And if I were a fisherman I think I'd be demanding the National Federation of Anglers or some such, hire their own vets to check out the corpses.

Jonathan

Nice to hear the voice of reason, instead of the same old angler/lead stuff

Mark H