White-tailed eagle

[larachmor]

Just returned yesterday from a couple of days on Scotland’s west coast mainland, where my wife and I went on a walk into an area we believed held white-tailed eagle. After an overnight camp we lifted our lightweight tent and were away by 7. An ancient and well-established public footpath gave us relatively easy access, and within a couple of hours we were threading our way through hills holding large areas of woodland on their flanks, with several “granny pines”, the type of tree that white-tails will often utilise. There was plenty of buzzard and raven activity, but no eagles. We continued on, and the path took us into a broad area of woodland. At one point the path dipped into a hollow, and as we hit the bottom we could see two very large nests close to the path. Looking into one it appeared disused, but on checking the other I could see bloodied prey remains on the edge of the nest. We continued along the path to a point that gave us a clearer view. As I checked through my bins, my heart skipped a beat, with a mixture of excitement and alarm. Nestling down low, but high enough to keep watch was the unmistakeable head and beak of an eagle. All was silent - no parent birds were present. It was wonderful to have such a privileged view, but at the same time I was alarmed at how close we were. We would never have knowingly allowed ourselves to get so close. I allowed myself a couple of quickly taken shots before hurriedly moving on. We passed through the woods and ascended a nearby hill where we picked a spot in a grassy hollow for an overdue lunch, and set up a scope. This had taken us away and out of sight of the nest, but allowed us a view over the woods and any subsequent activity. The chick would not be far from fledging, and so could be left for extended periods quite safely. We rested for almost two hours in the hope that we would see the adults, and were discussing having to leave, when I caught sight of the female coming in skimming the tree-tops and dropping out of sight into the nest area. She emerged and settled in a tree on the far hillside for a few minutes, giving us a nice clear view through the scope of her green ‘o’ wing tag.



We undoubtedly will have been within her view, but she did not seem perturbed at all and preened quietly for a while. Then she took off passing over the nest and along the tree-tops on our side of the valley, possibly checking us out, and at the same time treating us to some lovely views before circling back to perch on the tree-tops above the nest.



She stayed there for some time, and we decided to leave her. Of course, we didn’t want to pass the way we had come and decided to take a wide detour around the woods, dropping into a low boggy area before picking our way back up through the heather to our path further back. As we moved away from the edge of the woods she came from behind and came directly above us. Moving away she must have realised we represented no threat and glided away towards some distant hills and out of sight.



We had a seemingly longer walk out, thoroughly tired, but the time and effort had been worthwhile, though we never had intended to get so close. I researched the female on return home. She is a ten year old, and it is reported, “despite the close presence of a public footpath”, at her first attempt there, successfully raised a chick in 2007 and of course, we now have a second for this year.

[deer boy]

Wow great pics larachmor & i enjoyed reading about your day,sounds fab

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by larachmor

.....went on a walk into an area we believed held white-tailed eagle....with several “granny pines”, the type of tree that white-tails will often utilise.... we could see two very large nests close to the path.... but on checking the other I could see bloodied prey remains on the edge of the nest. We continued along the path to a point that gave us a clearer view. Nestling down low, but high enough to keep watch was the unmistakeable head and beak of an eagle.. ..at the same time I was alarmed at how close we were. We would never have knowingly allowed ourselves to get so close. I allowed myself a couple of quickly taken shots.....
We undoubtedly will have been within her view....... possibly checking us out,

Frankly larachmor words almost fail me!

Are you not aware that the white-tailed eagle is a specially protected species under Schedule 1 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act and that it is a criminal offence (whatever the location of the nest and the rights of access position) to "intentionally or recklessly" disturb such birds "in, on, at or near" the nest.

As for "allowing myself a couple of quickly taken shots", the level of protection afforded these birds is such that currently no licences are being issued for nest photography and your actions (as described) almost certainly amount to a criminal offence.

Whilst I can well understand your excitement at your find, in my view publicising your actions in this way (and perhaps encouraging others to do likewise) is totally irresponsible.

Jeff

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by JeffH

Frankly larachmor words almost fail me!

Are you not aware that the white-tailed eagle is a specially protected species under Schedule 1 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act and that it is a criminal offence (whatever the location of the nest and the rights of access position) to "intentionally or recklessly" disturb such birds "in, on, at or near" the nest.

As for "allowing myself a couple of quickly taken shots", the level of protection afforded these birds is such that currently no licences are being issued for nest photography and your actions (as described) almost certainly amount to a criminal offence.

Whilst I can well understand your excitement at your find, in my view publicising your actions in this way (and perhaps encouraging others to do likewise) is totally irresponsible.

Jeff

I feel I must reply, and apologise for what is going to be a lengthy response.

First of all, to be able to quote the law is one thing, but to understand the complexities of law is quite another, and your assumption that my actions “almost certainly amount to a criminal offence” demonstrates that whilst you are able to quote the law, your understanding is limited.

Any law has to be taken apart to the various elements, and the important elements here apply to the words “intentionally” and “recklessly” and I will give examples later of how difficult this is to prove against the true “wildlife criminal.” The law is never black or white, but allows also for a great deal of common sense which I shall also demonstrate later.

Whilst I knew there to be eagles in the area, my encountering the nest, by way of a public footpath could never be interpreted as “intentional.”
My actions of “allowing myself a couple of quickly taken shots,” amounting to a few seconds at most, hardly breaking stride, you presumably regard as reckless. You have obviously cherry-picked those words amongst the total content of that sentence (i.e. “We would never have knowingly allowed ourselves to get so close. I allowed myself a couple of quickly taken shots before hurriedly moving on”) so your assumption is totally wrong and unfounded.
Couple this with my return (i.e Of course, we didn’t want to pass the way we had come and decided to take a wide detour around the woods) and your “prosecution case” is further eroded.

I will now take the trouble to tell you a little about myself. I am a retired person, and devote much of my time to my passions of wildlife and photography. I often ask myself which came first, but I am still unable to answer, so I just accept that my main singular passion is “wildlife photography.” My hobby drives my website, which is not for financial gain, but for sharing, which gives me a deal of satisfaction. Here you will find everything from my humble resident garden toad to the rare mountain gorillas of Rwanda. Nowhere on my website will you find mention of “sales.” It is purely for personal pleasure and for sharing. In dealing with any subject my primary concern is always for the subject, be they protected or otherwise. Apart from a bit of illegal parking and straying above the odd speed-limit I have never broken a law in my life, and at the age of 58 I object to your allegation.

I have devoted a great deal of time during my working career to protection. I spent a time as a volunteer for the RSPB protecting the Haweswater eagles in their prime years. I was a founder member of a protection group mounting a 24 hour watch on a peregrine nest that had been attacked by criminals annually for 5 years until we started. I spent 7 years there before moving to Scotland, and during that time never lost an egg or chick to crime. I now devote much of my spare time to capercaillie protection.

To demonstrate some aspects of wildlife law I shall give you two examples of personal experience:
We used to rent a cottage on Skye for several years, and spent a great deal of time watching golden eagles from a roadside sheepfold (for your information about 800 metres from the nest) At the end of one holiday we were paying our last visit, and noticed what appeared to be a climbing rope dangling alongside the nest ledge that had not been there the day before. Nobody was within view, but I reported my concerns. The police attended the following day, as we returned home. They spoke to a woman alone in a car waiting for her boyfriend who had “gone for a walk.” The police found climbing equipment, camera equipment and a hide within yards of the nest and its occupant chick. Unknown to the police, the boyfriend had secreted himself amongst the rocks on their approach. The police played a waiting game at the car and he eventually returned. He gave a false name and address and was duly arrested. He had previous convictions for wildlife crime, but of course would be put before the court as an innocent person. The case went to court. His defence was that he was taking photographs and had no intention of putting the female off the nest – indeed it was this very photograph that he wanted. The case was “not proven,” as provided by Scottish Law – not guilty, but not innocent either. He was released. The RSPB enforcement officer contacted me and spoke of their disappointment. He contacted me some months later to report that the same person had been arrested again, this time in possession of eggs returning from the Outer Hebrides. He was convicted for this offence, which had the effect of activating the “not proven” verdict, converting it to an effective guilty verdict and was duly punished. So I ask – Does this example not demonstrate how difficult it is to prove such an allegation. So how far would you get with your assumption of an offence?

Now – I’ll discuss common sense. Whilst on our peregrine watch, the lady owner of the farmhouse heard the birds distress calling one morning. She investigated and found a premature fledgling sitting on the lane outside the house. It had obviously jumped the nest, and the steep ground of the rock-face eventually deposited it on the road outside the farm. She took possession of the chick, returned to the house for a rucksack and climbed the rock face as best she could to deposit it on the ridge as close as she could get to the nest, where it eventually found its way back before successfully fledging later. Technically she had broken the law, but do you feel her actions were worthy of prosecution?. The police wildlife officer became aware of her actions, but of course common sense prevailed, as it should. So you see, interpreting any law amounts to more than an ability to quote legislation verse and chapter.

I am a new member to this website, which I find totally absorbing, if somewhat time-consuming as there is so much content, with so many contributors all sharing their photos and experiences, which provides great reading. I feel I also have a great deal yet to share. I will not continue however if any of my contributions cause concern, no matter how groundless or ill-founded those concerns may be. I will reserve judgement when I have taken time to assess, and indeed invite reactions from others.
Bill.

[NikkiStar]

I am a relative novice when it comes to bird and wildlife watching although I enjoy doing and reading about it passionately and felt I wanted to respond to this thread.

I am not passing comment on the rights or wrongs of the original post (although in my limited experience the precautions taken seemed to be reasonable and little cause for concern) but I do know, from experience, that it is all too easy to take the limited facts given in a written post and presume that we know enough to make a judgement and respond, perhaps a little too aggressively.

As a new member to a tight knit online community I know, from experience, that it can be daunting (and sometimes upsetting) to be 'attacked' so ferociously, especially when you have been sharing a special experience. Please, please don't be put off from sharing your experiences and knowledge and please, please if you feel strongly about something consider the way you might make people feel before you respond so scathingly. That way we can all learn - especially new-comers like me!

[deer boy]

Originally Posted by larachmor

I am a new member to this website, which I find totally absorbing, if somewhat time-consuming as there is so much content, with so many contributors all sharing their photos and experiences, which provides great reading. I feel I also have a great deal yet to share. I will not continue however if any of my contributions cause concern, no matter how groundless or ill-founded those concerns may be. I will reserve judgement when I have taken time to assess, and indeed invite reactions from others.
Bill.

Hi larachmor as i said in my first post "i enjoyed reading about your day,sounds fab" so please don't be put off & continue to post, because i for one would like to hear your contribution

[moz]

I feel from what you say about seeing these magnificent birds that you acted in as a responsible manner as could be expected from someone who clearly has a great passion for their subject and don't see any grounds for for concern over the welfare of the eagles.You had a fantastic experience in a careful way and should be commended for the superb photos.My son and i saw golden eagles on the north west coast of scotland a couple of years ago and i fully understand your excitement at this site to remember.Thank you wholeheartedly for sharing this and good luck on future expiditions!

[larachmor]

First of all, thanks to Moz and Deer Boy for your comments.
I thought, for interest, that I would add this as a footnote, which addresses the potential disturbance of this pair, from reports provided by RSPB/Scottish Natural Heritage:-
In 2007 they successfully raised a chick "despite nesting close to a public footpath."
Go back to 2006 - "In April, the pair was observed incubating on the nest, but by early May the nest was abandoned. It is likely that the breeding attempt failed as a result of disturbance from walkers using a path the runs within 20m of the nest."
But it is the report of 2005 that causes me concern: "They were not discovered and monitored until late April. "Both birds were seen flying around the area in early May, and the male was observed incubating on each of the next four visits between 8th May and 27th May. But by 6th June the nest was deserted... at least one egg had been laid. It is thought that disturbance had caused the birds to desert"
To me, this begs the question as to why four visits in 19 days were necessary during the important incubation period. Knowing the nest site I can say that it is only possible to observe the nest from a point immediately beneath it, as it is sited low in the tree, and additionally is in a hollow. In a period of less than 10 days it had changed from being a live nest to a deserted one, and the likely cause - disturbance - but disturbance that could well be the "lawful" activities of licensed observers?
Bill.

[deer boy]

Originally Posted by larachmor

In 2007 they successfully raised a chick "despite nesting close to a public footpath."
Go back to 2006 - "In April, the pair was observed incubating on the nest, but by early May the nest was abandoned. It is likely that the breeding attempt failed as a result of disturbance from walkers using a path the runs within 20m of the nest."
But it is the report of 2005 that causes me concern: "They were not discovered and monitored until late April. "Both birds were seen flying around the area in early May, and the male was observed incubating on each of the next four visits between 8th May and 27th May. But by 6th June the nest was deserted... at least one egg had been laid. It is thought that disturbance had caused the birds to desert"
To me, this begs the question as to why four visits in 19 days were necessary during the important incubation period. Knowing the nest site I can say that it is only possible to observe the nest from a point immediately beneath it, as it is sited low in the tree, and additionally is in a hollow. In a period of less than 10 days it had changed from being a live nest to a deserted one, and the likely cause - disturbance - but disturbance that could well be the "lawful" activities of licensed observers?
Bill.

If the birds have been using the same nest since 2005,can the footpath not be closed during the breeding season?

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by deer boy

If the birds have been using the same nest since 2005,can the footpath not be closed during the breeding season?

Whilst I feel that total closure of this (fairly long-distance) footpath would be difficult, if at all possible under the "right to roam" legislation, the geography is such that a sign could be placed at the entrance to the wood asking walkers to take, as I did on my return, a detour around the edge. Had there been such a sign I myself would certainly not have entered.

[ChrisJB]

Last year in the Forest of Bowland, a footpath that went close to the nesting eagle owls was closed, but that might've been due to walkers getting attacked by the owls if they strayed too close.

Regards, Chris