Sea Eagle killed on sporting estate (allegedly)

[JeffH]

Yet more bad news (allegedly?) about the treatment of birds of prey on a Scottish 'sporting' estate -

Sea eagle killed on sporting estate - Times Online

and these people call themselves 'sportsmen' !!!!

Jeff

[buteo_buteo]

I am SOOOOOO angry about this I can not even tell you, especially after the business with the red kites.

Something needs to be done about these uneducated, misguided idiots who keep killing these magnificent creatures.

[demicav]

Tougher penelties are needed otherwise I don't know why they are wasting their time with the reintroductions. This sort of thing really angers me. People killing native birds to protect (sometimes) non native birds so THEY can kill them. It's crazy.

[Paul mabbott]

We know they do it but how do you prove it? Is it possible to allow hunting of birds without employing gamekeepers who have a very simple view of life ("gamebird" protect, "predator" kill) or the idiot particpant who just likes to kill anything they see - I suppose birds of prey are a bigger challenge than stupid grouse ....

Hasn't the time come to take back our land from the gentry and protect all wildlife in it?

[buteo_buteo]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

We know they do it but how do you prove it? Is it possible to allow hunting of birds without employing gamekeepers who have a very simple view of life ("gamebird" protect, "predator" kill) or the idiot particpant who just likes to kill anything they see - I suppose birds of prey are a bigger challenge than stupid grouse ....

Hasn't the time come to take back our land from the gentry and protect all wildlife in it?

There are some good, honest gamekeepers out there who know birds of prey are not a threat to game birds, and in some cases (like at Argaty red kite feeding station) they even assist with re-introduction programmes. The trouble is all the other idiots who are from the 'old school' and want to shoot anything or anybody who comes near 'their' land. These are the ones who need to be sorted out, I'm just not sure how to do it

[RobSutton]

Two ideas that might work - a licencing system for gamekeepers and if they commit a "wildlife" crime they lose their licence to work and making their employers legally responsible for their actions so they are faced with a whopping fine if the gamekeeper is convicted.

But then as Paul said how do you prove they did it. I seem to remember a couple of cases in Scotland were thrown out because the people collecting the evidence (picking up carcasses and actually seeing someone shoot a raptor I believe) didn't have permission to be on the land - crazy!

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by buteo_buteo

There are some good, honest gamekeepers out there who know birds of prey are not a threat to game birds, and in some cases (like at Argaty red kite feeding station) they even assist with re-introduction programmes. The trouble is all the other idiots who are from the 'old school' and want to shoot anything or anybody who comes near 'their' land. These are the ones who need to be sorted out, I'm just not sure how to do it

This is an awful piece of persecution which is illegal if true. However I think it's false to say birds of prey are not a threat to game birds as some species such as Hen Harrier, Goshawk + Golden Eagle do take some. However this totally natural predation doesn't justify these attacks on our wonderful raptors.

[buteo_buteo]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

This is an awful piece of persecution which is illegal if true. However I think it's false to say birds of prey are not a threat to game birds as some species such as Hen Harrier, Goshawk + Golden Eagle do take some. However this totally natural predation doesn't justify these attacks on our wonderful raptors.

Of course they kill some game birds/chicks but this is probably a tiny number compared to the amount killed by cars every day! And as you say, it doesn't justify shooting them!

[buteo_buteo]

Originally Posted by RobSutton

Two ideas that might work - a licencing system for gamekeepers and if they commit a "wildlife" crime they lose their licence to work and making their employers legally responsible for their actions so they are faced with a whopping fine if the gamekeeper is convicted.

But then as Paul said how do you prove they did it. I seem to remember a couple of cases in Scotland were thrown out because the people collecting the evidence (picking up carcasses and actually seeing someone shoot a raptor I believe) didn't have permission to be on the land - crazy!

I believe the Scottish Government are considering removing gamekeeper's gun license if they are proved to be involved in this type of persecution. Then they can't work. But as you say proving it is the tough part

[Dogghound]

I hate the people who do this hate them so much

Sick of people trying to be mr macho because they have a gun.

[PMG]

Originally Posted by RobSutton

Two ideas that might work - a licencing system for gamekeepers and if they commit a "wildlife" crime they lose their licence to work and making their employers legally responsible for their actions so they are faced with a whopping fine if the gamekeeper is convicted.

But then as Paul said how do you prove they did it. I seem to remember a couple of cases in Scotland were thrown out because the people collecting the evidence (picking up carcasses and actually seeing someone shoot a raptor I believe) didn't have permission to be on the land - crazy!

The Law is an ass Rob!

Pauline

[naturelover]

omg not more whats going on just lately,thats all we hear now,just because the bird did what comes naturaly,of course its going to kill that dosnt know its a game bird,it just wants its dinner,the same as its always done since time began,i just canot make some people out,their going to kill it anyway thats what game birds are bread for,which for me is disgusting,to be reard just to get shot,grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[paulchandler6]

Again, another unbelievable episode. Why would anyone want to do such a thing. I cant put words here to express how I feel. Such a magnificent bird.

Paul

[ChrisJB]

Well, the perpertrators are just misguided barbarians as far as I'm concerned.

Next time I should say what I really think.

Regards, Chris

[Dan Salter]

Yes this makes me mad too...as have all the recent reports...

Im not really one of the anti shooting/ anti everything brigade...BUT...to kill a native animal/bird because it is feeding (with no real danger to numbers or populations compared to game shooting) on a bird used for sport/leisure is mental.

[Dan Salter]

OMG....i just read the three replies on the newspaper link....WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?...GRRRRRRrrrrr....

and i am NOT any kind of "Animal rights" type...thank you....



actually im fed up with the misunderstanding of being a "naturalist/conservationist"....being twinned with "Cazy Animal rights hippy activist"...i couldnt be further from that if i tried! ( Ok ok...so i did have dreds down to my bum...pierced nose and eyebrow and i have tattoos....but i was in a rock band dammit ! )

[Rob T]

This problem as I see it is two fold firstly the heartless individual who carried out the act in the first place will not be brought to justice, but secondly and to me anyway just as sad is the seemingly public veiw to disbelive these recent events even happend and to blame wildlife lovers and calling them activists for starting the trouble . . . . . . Starting the trouble ? sorry but Im lost. Watching magnificent birds and complaining when they are shot or poisoned (which is against the law Mr.Valentine) isnt realy starting the trouble is it ?

Rob

[m1.carson]

Hi jeffH,

I think I agree on your first brackets "allegedly", it seems that in the last few months there's been predators falling out of the sky willy-nilly, and there is always someone to see/hear the event, although no proof is found.

Methinks I smell a rat. [sorry rodent lovers]

Max.

[buteo_buteo]

Originally Posted by m1.carson

Hi jeffH,

I think I agree on your first brackets "allegedly", it seems that in the last few months there's been predators falling out of the sky willy-nilly, and there is always someone to see/hear the event, although no proof is found.

Methinks I smell a rat. [sorry rodent lovers]

Max.

It's true there's no proof, but it's very unlikely that a 'good' gamekeeper would shoot a bop and then leave it's body lying around!!

[Chrisg]

BOPs, depending on their size, take a very small number of game birds, many just one or two a week - compared with a "gun" who may shoot dozens in two or three hours. Surely there are enough prey out out there for both hunters man and bird?

[PMG]

OK - facts and figures:

1,109 reported incidents (bird-related crime) in 2006.
This is a 50% increase on 2005 (with only 726 incidents)
These figures relate to all bird-related crime

The numbers below relates to crime involving birds of prey only:

12 Derbyshire
11 North Yorkshire
10 Northumberland

There were 28 confirmed deaths for 2006

That is 28 birds of prey killed - fact

Go to RSPB homepage to read full report - I've tried to put the url in but not managed it

Pauline

[buteo_buteo]

RSPB bird crime report 2006

[PMG]

Originally Posted by buteo_buteo

RSPB bird crime report 2006

Thanks buteo - thats the one I was quoting from

Pauline

[epops]

if this estate is at the centre of illigal practices surley the thing to do is to fully investigate the crime after all 99o/o is quite high unless dare i say it its a cover up

[buteo_buteo]

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