Warbler Id Please

Polecat · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 12:48 PM

I dunno about this one....

The photos are poor as it was some distance from me. Unfortunatley I never heard it call. I thought first of all it was a grasshopper or similar but I think not now.

Note the distinctive stripe on its wing and its tail fanned in one of the pics.

Thanks
Andy

Gill Catton · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 02:01 PM

Wow this is a tricky one! I think you are right to discount grasshopper warbler the bird just isn't brown or streaked enough and is not as delicate. Chiff chaff but the bill seems too heavy and the bird a little bulky, too grey for a willow warbler, Garden Warbler? but then the bill seems a little long.....
It's surely the wrong season for a Juvenille Garden Warbler....
Some exciting kind of pipit?
At this point I admit defeat.....

SteveA · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 02:13 PM

I'd say it was a pipit Andy. Did you see anything that would rule out it being a pipit?

Gill Catton · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

Wow this is a tricky one! I think you are right to discount grasshopper warbler the bird just isn't brown or streaked enough and is not as delicate. Chiff chaff but the bill seems too heavy and the bird a little bulky, too grey for a willow warbler, Garden Warbler? but then the bill seems a little long.....
It's surely the wrong season for a Juvenille Garden Warbler....
Some exciting kind of pipit?
At this point I admit defeat.....

Meant to write juvenille barred warbler not repeat the garden warbler thing.....
where in the country was this taken? and what kind of habitat was the bird in?

Polecat · #5 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 02:57 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

pipits are ten a penny up here!!!.....

I only ob'd it for 2 or 3 minutes flitting about in willow before it landed on this spruce, where I could take a quick pic.

I am sure its not a pipit because It was too small and propotionally different and because its behaviour was un-pipit like.....it's behaviour was characteristic like that of a grasshopper warbler, which is what I thought it was until it perched aloft on the spruce....The photos don't make it clear but it had no apparent yellowy/green plumage.

I am familiar with a lot of warblers, and their behaviour, and It was none of the more common varities.

I really needed to hear it but I had to get to an appointment

There has been a huge influx of migrants today, pied flycatchers have arrived etc....maybe it got carried with the strong wind.....I'm expecting to hear of a lot of rareties about in the next day or 2!

Polecat · #6 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 03:01 PM

Sorry, missed your post Jill.

This was this morning at 11z, at 1100' asl near 10' willows close which are surrounded ( but in a 20acre clearing ) by spruce/larch forest. Brecon beacons.

Nightjars love it IYKWIM

rlchew · #7 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 06:36 PM

Any takers for Tree Pipit?

They are arriving back just now and do like prominent perches from which to launch their song flight.

Brecon Beacons .... a clearing adjacent to forest .... sounds possible.

Richard

Mark43 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlchew

Any takers for Tree Pipit?

They are arriving back just now and do like prominent perches from which to launch their song flight.

Brecon Beacons .... a clearing adjacent to forest .... sounds possible.

Richard

Have to agree the slight fork in the tail makes it more tree pipit than grasshopper warbler and the wing bar also.....gets my vote.

Polecat · #9 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 07:43 PM

Thanks for the Id

I genuinely didn't think it was a pipit especially as I had been watching them too today!

So with a bit of egg on'face heres todays tree pipit!......now to compare with my 'warbler' lol

rlchew · #10 (**permalink**) 03-05-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polecat

Thanks for the Id

I genuinely didn't think it was a pipit especially as I had been watching them too today!

So with a bit of egg on'face heres todays tree pipit!......now to compare with my 'warbler' lol

Hi Polecat

No egg on face necessary. At least we had an ID in the end and at least you have seen a Tree Pipit this year. I am still waiting as there are not many to be found in Essex. Hopefully my luck will change at the weekend in Wales.

Richard

Gill Catton · #11 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark43

Have to agree the slight fork in the tail makes it more tree pipit than grasshopper warbler and the wing bar also.....gets my vote.

It really doesn't look like a tree pipit to me in the first set of photographs, it's too plain there's not enough streaking and it's too grey. It that really the same bird in the fourth photograph? (which is clearly then a tree pipit / meadow pipit type bird)

Lancastrian · #12 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 01:51 PM

How about juvenile stone chat

Gill Catton · #13 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancastrian

How about juvenile stone chat

Aren't they a bit speckledy too on the breast area?

Mark43 · #14 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

It really doesn't look like a tree pipit to me in the first set of photographs, it's too plain there's not enough streaking and it's too grey. It that really the same bird in the fourth photograph? (which is clearly then a tree pipit / meadow pipit type bird)

I have to agree the 4th pic is the best and is pretty obvious but i would gladly bow to your superior knowledge on the subject...........still don't think its a g.hopper warbler though in the first pics.

Polecat · #15 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 05:27 PM

Hi all ,

No, the fourth pic IS a Tree Pipit I took a few hours later. The first 3 are of a different bird ( I thought/think ) .

......Trouble is, that in this small area there are sooo many little birds......and if you know what I mean......the one in the first 3 pics was a warbler from its antics, but I would admit, that settling on top the young spruce was not ...sort of.... warbler like.

The tree pipit in the fourth pic was instantly recognisable and 'posed'......

the first 3 pics were all taken within a single secound or so, and as warblers go ... this one, like them didn't pose for the camera.

............A bit later ( doing dinner atm ) I'll see if I can get some more shots up of the first bird.

Thanks All

Andy

Mark43 · #16 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 06:54 PM

You see the trouble you have caused

Gill Catton · #17 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 07:00 PM

oh no I love a challenge!!!!!

Gill Catton · #18 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polecat

Hi all ,

No, the fourth pic IS a Tree Pipit I took a few hours later. The first 3 are of a different bird ( I thought/think ) .

......Trouble is, that in this small area there are sooo many little birds......and if you know what I mean......the one in the first 3 pics was a warbler from its antics, but I would admit, that settling on top the young spruce was not ...sort of.... warbler like.

The tree pipit in the fourth pic was instantly recognisable and 'posed'......

the first 3 pics were all taken within a single secound or so, and as warblers go ... this one, like them didn't pose for the camera.
............A bit later ( doing dinner atm ) I'll see if I can get some more shots up of the first bird.

Thanks All

Andy

That's what I thought about the pictures, god I thought I was going mad!!!

I don't think you can judge behaviours like 'sitting on top of a tree' too strongly as ID definitives, they can help but they're not set in stone!
If you say it moved more like a warbler then that absolutely fine you were the one watching both it and the pipits so you have more clues that us and therefore you're probably right. The only thing is, it doesn't entirely fit easily any of common warblers that I know, it just doesn't seem delicate enough - happy to be proved wrong!!! It does seem to have the build of a pipit but again it doesn't easily fit any of the common pipits either - the closest I came was a Scandinavian sub species of the rock pipit - now how likely is that.... errrr not very

Photograph 4 Tree pipit? Meadow pipit?

Good luck hope it hasn't moved on, I really want to find out what it is

!!!

Polecat · #19 (**permalink**) 04-05-2006, 09:14 PM

Trouble Here

.........First of all...another big thanks.

I wish the pics were more conclusive....though the originals are a bit better.

To the Tree pipit ? ( photo #4 )...I thought it this.....It certainly is not a meadow pipit, I have those in the garden every single day.....Tis a bit colourful For a pipit though

Now on to photos #1-3.

Thanks for the help with the behaviour Gill....It was flitting about in the lower willow branches, imposs. to photo until it landed on the spruce where it stayed for.....unussually long enough, though I was prepared, for the photo call!! about 5 secs max I estimate.

I had the camera on burst so I've a couple more that I havn't posted.....

The beak size seems big in some but the difinitve photo for the beak is #1 I rekon.

I hope its a pipit now!!! lol

Polecat · #20 (**permalink**) 05-05-2006, 12:58 PM

I watched it again today, though no chance to photograph it again. When it flits between trees it fans it tail right out. A little similar to how a redstart sometimes fans it tail, but alittle more pronounced. Its small, 4½ - 5" ....

I really don't know!

SteveA · #21 (**permalink**) 05-05-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polecat

I watched it again today, though no chance to photograph it again. When it flits between trees it fans it tail right out. A little similar to how a redstart sometimes fans it tail, but alittle more pronounced. Its small, 4½ - 5" ....

I really don't know!

In all seven photo's it's reminiscent of a pipit, Tree being favourite in all but one of them. The habits don't seem right though.

What area of the Beacons is it, Andy? Any other birders nearby you could ask to take a look? (I'm 800ft up on a ridge east of Y Mynyddoedd Duon and would probably have to use public transport to get close

3 miles to the nearest bus stop!)

Mark43 · #22 (**permalink**) 05-05-2006, 07:57 PM

Wait till John gets back off his hols and he will know i'm sure.

Alan · #23 (**permalink**) 05-05-2006, 08:54 PM

Unfortunately, I don't think the bird can ever be identified 100%, unless it's possible to get better photos

, otherwise we could go on and on discussing what it might be! Best to settle with possible pipit/lark...for now!

Although it is good fun!

Mark43 · #24 (**permalink**) 05-05-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Unfortunately, I don't think the bird can ever be identified 100%, unless it's possible to get better photos

, otherwise we could go on and on discussing what it might be! Best to settle with possible pipit/lark...for now!

Although it is good fun!

You could be right Alan

Polecat you need to set up a hide and wait for it.

Don't come back without a clear shot ok

Polecat · #25 (**permalink**) 05-05-2006, 09:47 PM

LOL.......I use my mobile hide with blacked out windows and that still doesn't work too well!!..... I daren't return without a decent pic now.
SteveA....i'll pm .

........Though, I think if I can get to hear it call that might be better id than one of my photos!!

Seriously though peeps, what birds bar the redstart do you know that fans its tail regular when flying?.......

At the end of the day Id isn't really needed, and there is no way a positive id can be gained from my pics.........unless John is really surreal & can

I shall wait tommorow ( again )