Black Herons?

[stephen p]

Originally Posted by paulchandler6

I think what is being said is that maybe you are not sure what you have seen? If you dont make notes at the time or take pics, then by the time you get to writing down what you have seen has in all possibility changed from what was actually observed.
I know this from experience of my early days birding and from others..
All birders know that to get a sighting accepted (of a rarity) then a detailed description is required. So we learn to take notes on the spot and hope it gets accepted.
As to the wind up there have been a few threads of late that have inclined to that so suspicion sets in.
Whatever was seen it is an experience to learn by.

Paul

Good points paul, it's a shame it came to this.
But lets all move on and enjoy the forum

[stephen p]

Originally Posted by Buzzy

I know what I saw. There was no delay in putting the info down as they flew overhead outside my back door, because I knew that these birds were not usually seen around here I was instantly delving to find what they were their impression very firmly logged in my head. I am a very enthusiastic nature watcher and lover, preferring nature to people most of the time, it's not very reassuring to know there are some capable of taking the enthusiasm and enjoyment out of it. I some can't come to terms with what may have been seen then don't shunt the problem onto others who onloy want to do their part in sharing experiences and wonders of nature
Thankyou

Lets not get disheartend Buzzy it was great what you and i saw, maybe they were the same we may never know.
I also prefer nature to people sometimes, lets just keep an eye out maybe
they will appear again, and if so i will make sure i have a camera

[Buzzy]

Thank you stephenP
I don't fall easily. Too long in the tooth to let others pull me down I was thinking more of others reading the comments
Thanks for your comment and who knows ... Maybe they may appear next year or even sooner ....or even something else
Cheers for now!

[catten80]

Hey guys,


Well I feel drained now but nevermind.

I suppose the clash is bound to happen when you get avid 'birders' and people that just like looking out the window to see what flys past and using an old birdwatching book.

Its a shame that we might never know one way or another about these guys. I don't think there is a right and wrong just experience and beginner.

It was great to have so many people interested and nice to see much enthusiasm and suggestions from people. I will use the forum again if I get stuck again (perhaps with mure research first).

But must agree with Madelinew who said:-

''Whilst the knowledge of experts is of great value, please don't get offended if someone points out that the manner in which these facts are presented could perhaps be improved upon. To someone who has a passing interest in birding and is excited by a possible rarity, such a manner can be quite damaging.

Sorry, but I felt I had to say that. I'm sure no-one means to offend but we all started somewhere and some us have more knowledge on the subject and others less.

There are also children using this website to build on their interests and such an approach would send them packing.''

It can be scary or even embarrasing if you are new and know that you don't know much about birds and people are turning down what you saw with 'facts' and dismissing you as perhaps a wind up.

I don't want to convince people of anything I saw. I could be totally wrong. After looking through more books I think the best I could think they would have been, were juvenile grey herons that were really, really dark. I did remember that they weren't glossy but matt coloured (if that makes sense or a difference).

Like I said some people claim they have seen a panther in Norfolk running around the woods. If it keeps them happy then fine, but I will believe it when I see it.

Thanks to everyone. Its nice to find a forum that encourages people to share pics, thoughts and opinions and are happy to all chip in. I am happy I found it.

Ps I've emailed the county recorder and await their reply.

[John]

I am finding it hard to answer this thread correctly, following the last few statements. Lets be honest its me that is coming over a bit hard.

Everyone that knows me knows that I am the first to help, not hinder, anyone that has an ID query. Just look through all the threads I have taken part in regarding the Birds Forum, and to a lesser degree the moths section as well. I always answer with facts, and where possible photos to back up what I am saying but this thread is a bit different.

First of all you have to take this thread in sections. It opened up with a query about two dark Heron like birds and at first a few ideas were mooted about regarding what they could have been, Cormorant being the most popular.

The thread then changes a bit when photos of a reef heron are posted, telling us that the birds were exactly like that (even down to the positioning of the birds in the photo - except direction of flight). It was rightfully pointed out that these birds would not be over here. It was also pointed out that there are no black birds of a similar look to a heron that could be here and yet more joined in with similar sightings.

First of all. If you are novice birders and you ask questions from those that know why is it you suddenly disagree with them. All those that do know what they are talking about on this thread have been uniform in their answers. I have been more vocal than the others but basically we are singing from the same hymn sheet. We are not saying this to have a go at you but to try and direct you into the possible ID's they can or can't be.

When we state more or less at the beginning why it can't be certain birds why do you then persevere with what they are not. The learning curve is to listen to those that know and learn from it.

What should have happened was too look more closely at what you saw and bring in other factors / possibilities. What was the light like. Was you looking at a bird with the sky behind it. Are you sure it was all black. Could it possibly be seen as a silhouette. Are you sure about the body shape / size. All these factors have to be taken into account, but that doesn't seem to have happened on this thread, as it seems that what you think they are have to be right, or something very similar (even though you are being told there isn't anything like that).

When a thread goes like that you have to wonder why a question has been asked in the first place if you are not prepared to take on board what is being said by those that know what they are talking about.

Because of this I decided to take a hard line with this thread, something I can't recall ever doing before.

In the end you can call the bird what you like as you saw it, but I would have hoped that this thread could have been used as a learning tool.

This thread is split into two camps. Birdwatchers with experience and those without as much experience. Both camps appear in unison to other members of their respective experiences, i.e the likes of aeshna5 and Paul Chambers etc agree with me. The likes of Buzzy and Stephen p etc agree with catten80.

When that happens frustration sets in and nothing is learnt, but instead of thinking that perhaps we have a reason for giving the answers the way we have you think we are attacking you. You also acknowledge children as possibly reading this thread. Why that is mentioned I have no idea but any child that is interested in information would have wondered why knowledgeable members answered are being ignored the way they have been.

I'll put it to those that think they know what these birds were. Please tell us what you think they are, having taken all the points raised in this thread (that includes everyone that has taken part in this debate.

For me the only guaranteed black bird in Britain is Cormorant and Shag (of heron type shape).

John

John

[stephen p]

Fair comments john,

Lets all learn from this and move on.

[paulchandler6]

Originally Posted by stephen p

Good points paul, it's a shame it came to this.
But lets all move on and enjoy the forum

Thanks Stephen. I think we can all learn from this thread. Sorry if folk got upset, but I have been in on debates such as this with experienced birders as well. We learn, we move on.
Heres to the next one.

Paul

[Squirrels]

OK, I think what you saw was quite probably a Glossy Ibis. There have certainly been a lot of them seen this spring - a big influx of them has come over from the Mediterranean. There was some footage of a Glossy Ibis on the 6th episode of Autumnwatch (BB2) on Tuesday 13th November. The film showed a glossy ibis being harassed by gulls at the RSPB reserve of Marshside near the Wildfowl and Wetland Trust reserve of Martin Mere. It was certainly big and black!

[aeshna5]

There certainly was an unprecedented influx of Glossy Ibis this spring but I think there's been only 1 bird around recently which is in the north. Perhaps it's this species, but I think more likley not.

I think this will stay unresolved as any answer will be speculative now!

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

There certainly was an unprecedented influx of Glossy Ibis this spring but I think there's been only 1 bird around recently which is in the north. Perhaps it's this species, but I think more likley not.

I think this will stay unresolved as any answer will be speculative now!

After writing this there appears to be a new sighting of a Glossy Ibis in Devon today.