Birding behaviour

[Adam Cheeseman]

Please tell me if I'm just a grumpy old so-and so or not after reading this.

I have just spent the weekend enjoying the sites on offer on the Norfolk coast despite the wrong sort of weather for any decent migration. However, whilst at Titchwell RSPB reserve I was astounded by the behaviour of a large number of people birding on the beach. I hate to sound elitist but all of the people are what seasoned birders would call dudes - that is they haven't been birding long and are not well up on the matter but have all of the expensive acoutrements, so that could excuse their behaviour in part.
The majority of birders were sitting against the sand dunes to watch the birds as is the norm at Titchwell - they have seats and a platform for the purpose of sea and wader watching. A crowd of at least thirty people, some in dayglow colours, had to walk right down to the water's edge and actually walked out with the tide thus disturbing the hundreds of knot, dunlin, oystercatchers that were trying to feed on the receding tide. Not only that but as the birds had been corraled into a small area these people were watching the birds at a few feet with telescopes??? Where did they think they were, a zoo or WWT captive collection. They could have decent views of the birds from the comfort of the back of the beach and watched the birds exhibiting their normal behaiour whilst allowing them to feed without interference.
I bet they didn't even notice the rafts of razorbills, eiders, gannets, and occasional arctic skua further out at sea.
I bet most of them were RSPB members and profess to being nature lovers and watch all of the Bill Oddie type progs, yet have to walk right up to and disturb birds that are trying to feed just to look at them. First and last rule of birding - the welfare of the bird takes priority.

Is it just me?

Here endeth the rant

Cheers,

Adam

[Gill Catton]

no you're not wrong, there are a lot of features in the 'birding' world that prevent me from being a member of any of my local groups and this is one of them..... Bird welfare always comes first even if it means you miss out on a 'lifer'. A lot of it is to do with getting carried away - like spending 40,000 travelling around to see them most birds that year which is just nuts esp when if you have that much spare cash you could donate that £40,000 to aid the birds in general.

People don't realise how much energy it takes for these little feathered fellas (and fellaresses) just to survive particularly at this time of year and throughout the winter and how they can only eat when the tide is out and that this is actually a very short period of time.

Not to mention how slowly they breed and how much then even small increases in winter mortality (related to not having enough time feeding) can have a significant impact on the success of that breeding population.

[Dan Salter]

I have to agree Adam....i would have been fuming....although im not sure where i fall in briding stakes...i could well be a robin stroker or a dude im not sure...although i have been bird watching on and off since i was a kid and member of the YOC (now i have to admit the RSPB) a lot of it is just plain common sense.

Personally i would probably have lost my rag...shouted or confronted them and scared off even more birds....Last year i was enjoying a day birding at RSPB Northward Hill reserve on the north kent marshes when a .....i must admit....Foreign family...turned up ...complete with about 4 screaming teenage boys and a football and started a kick about and picnic party?.....erm.......No....we dont think so....but amazingly i kept Schtum...although a few paddington stares and doing my best grant mitchell look i think got the message accross and they moved on.

[andy68]

Hi Adam

No, it's definitely not just you! This sort of thoughtless behaviour is unfortunately a growing problem as birdwatching becomes ever more popular. As someone who's been birding for 30-odd years, it's ironic that it's now the so-called 'dudes' who are often the problem rather than the 'twitchers' who always used to get the blame!

I don't really know what the answer is - perhaps the RSPB should take more of a lead on this, especially at their reserves, but I fear it's more symptomatic of society's problems in general. Respect for others, whether it be other people or other creatures, seems sadly less important to many people these days than their own enjoyment.

I was tempted to post something similar to this the other week after having to leave a hide at Rutland Water to give my ears a rest from a pair of middle-aged men who were loudly and constantly talking about their expensive cameras/telescopes/binoculars without having the least idea of what they were looking at or photographing. They could just as easily have been discussing cars, or computers, or MP3 players. It seems that to some people, birding is just another excuse to try and out-do each other in consumerism. I just wish they'd go and do it in the pub or on the golf course!!

Andy

[almostnormal]

i know what you mean. you're definitely not alone. i'm not sure the rspb can do all that much at their reserves, nature is there for everyone to enjoy, and just because someone has a brightly coloured waterproof they shouldn't be excluded. however, the behaviour of those you saw at titchwell does sound off, and it might be if you write to the reserve they could put up a no walking beyond this point type sign? i'm not sure of the set up of titchwell because i've never been, but that's what they do to protect breeding little tern at minsmere.

[paulchandler6]

This is happening far to often these days, partly the reason I've stopped going to Scilly in the Autumn. Back in the Eighties/nineties although popular and busy people respected each others position when veiwing but the last few years have seen a different breed of birder whom seem to lack basic fieldcraft and awareness of others. Lets hope they learn soon.

Paul

[andy68]

Originally Posted by almostnormal

i know what you mean. you're definitely not alone. i'm not sure the rspb can do all that much at their reserves, nature is there for everyone to enjoy, and just because someone has a brightly coloured waterproof they shouldn't be excluded. however, the behaviour of those you saw at titchwell does sound off, and it might be if you write to the reserve they could put up a no walking beyond this point type sign? i'm not sure of the set up of titchwell because i've never been, but that's what they do to protect breeding little tern at minsmere.

I'm not sure a migrating Knot would agree with you that it was 'there for everyone to enjoy'! Human enjoyment of nature is important (to us), but, as Adam said in his original post, the welfare of the birds is more important.

Andy

[John]

I see this time & time again and it is becoming frequently frustrating at many reserves to watch them doing this.

I don't know how you are going to educate them, as they don't seem to listen to common sense reasoning. I have also been on the end of arguments from them when you try to point out the error of their ways, only to be told that it is a free country and that they can go where they like.

I also don't like to be told that it is none of my business when in fact it is. In fact it is every birders business to try and prefect such behaviour if possible, although beware of implications from the uneducated.

John

[LUPUS]

The last thing we should be thinking of doing is putting signs up! It is unfortunate that so many seem to have all the gear and no idea, and it might be a good idea if some of this kind of behaviour was discussed on programmes like Springwatch instead of all the meaningless prattle thats on there now. The thing is if these people knew they were behaving badly they would stop but they are obviously oblivious to the effect their behaviour is having . The longer they are in this blissful state the longer it will go on.

[Rich_]

There seems to be a tendency in these times Adam, for people to want to specialise in things like bird watching, fishing, rambling and other things & to pursue the interest in a crowd & own all the "right" gear & look the part. (you must use two "ski" poles to be considered a serious Rambler or fell walker now it would seem)

What many of them lack is a general awareness & knowledge of nature, and what they don't realise is that you'll see far more wildlife sitting still in the right place for an hour on your own than charging round pursuing it all day. As you say they were bird watchers, and many probably wouldn't have noticed any interesting wild flowers or anything else that may have been there to see.

[almostnormal]

Originally Posted by andy68

I'm not sure a migrating Knot would agree with you that it was 'there for everyone to enjoy'! Human enjoyment of nature is important (to us), but, as Adam said in his original post, the welfare of the birds is more important.

Andy

i agree, the welfare of the birds is more important. my point was that just because these people have new equipment and bright clothes it doesn't mean they don't have just as much right to enjoy the wildlife as anyone else. they may not even have realised how much they would effect the birds by going out there (i know it might be unlikely, but we all start somewhere). however, i agree with adam....they shouldn't have got so close which is why i suggested he get in touch with titchwell and mention it. its possible they can then set up some sort of don't get too close signs, thus letting people who are new to birding know that getting too close can effect the birds.

[wildone]

I think that the beach at Titchwell is a public beach reached in the main via the RSPB reserve but I have doubts that RSPB would have the right to put up notices on the beach itself. The only possibilities that I can see is for those that know to speak to the uninitiated in a nice way pointing out why there behaviour is a disturbance to the birds. Most people are reasonable when approached in a calm, friendly way.

wildone

[almostnormal]

Originally Posted by wildone

I think that the beach at Titchwell is a public beach reached in the main via the RSPB reserve but I have doubts that RSPB would have the right to put up notices on the beach itself. The only possibilities that I can see is for those that know to speak to the uninitiated in a nice way pointing out why there behaviour is a disturbance to the birds. Most people are reasonable when approached in a calm, friendly way.

wildone

ah...i didn't know the set up down there. in that case the rspb probably can't do anything to change the situation or indeed influence anyone, except for doing as wildone suggests, and even then i reckon it'd be hard work convincing some people.

[Dan Salter]

I agree with all the replies so far....i dont or didnt realise the beach is a publis beach and not attached to the reserve itself...in which case....if you had said you were trying to watch the birds on the beach and some lads were playing a game of frisbee and scared them all off then im afraid i would have said " Touch"...as they Do have as much right to be there as frustrating as it is..
But the fact they WERE birders or wannabe birders makes it even more annoying as they were/are aware its a birding spot and that others would be watching the birds around them...this would annoy me more than a game of frisbee..
I also agree the RSPB probably wont be allowed to put up "no entry" sings or whatever if it is indeed a public access beach? perhaps a regular user of the place can fill us in on this part?.
But as for dayglo clothing...there is no excuse for that in life in general ! lol...especially not when remotely associated with wildlfie watching or other country persuits...but sadly again this is down to no common sense and the fact no one has probably ever pointed out that infact your much more likely to see wildlife and blend in with your surroundings in greens, browns, khaki or cammo colours than purple ski pants, a flourescent yellow jacket and a lime green baseball cap.....unless you happen to be birding in the big top of your local circus?

But again....unless people are educated in this sort of thing it will go on...so many time si see the dayglo wildlife watchers out in the field...this is partly due to a couple of things.

Firstly...the manufacturers themselves...im a huge fan of North Face label clothing...has done me well on my round the world trip adventures and my everest base camp treks...But....come last year on the lookout for a new wildlife friendly ( green) North Face jacket......no luck....every "season" they seem to stick to certain colours...and this year it seemed to be either orange or black...the year before...blue and grey/yellow..etc...i eventually tracked down my North Face "Varios Guide" jacket in khaki green after a long search as i had seen it in the store a few years earlier.
It would be nice ...in my opinion...if all the big names of quality outdoors gear did all their clothing ranges in all the bright ski safety in minded colours and mountaineering visible yellows and oranges and reds...but always added a good old green/khaki in the mix as a hell of a lot of outdoors gear must be used with wildlife in mind and countryside work etc.

and the second helpfull thing would be...i often see guided walks, days, nature study days, birding trips etc advertised through such things as the wildlife trust, rspb....and although you always get the heldpul " The weather could change , be sure to bring warm clothing and a packed lunch" ,i would like added to that line "Warm clothing/hats/gloves in muted colours to increase chances of seeing wildlife..oh...and NO DOGS !!!"

[Wild-Woman]

I agree with the comments here but it's hard to strike a balance. We should encourage folk to enjoy wildlife, and for many new to it, they may not have the equipment and clothing that is needed to watch observe without disturbance. Indeed we if we start dictating their wardrobe it may put some off. Let them see the die hard wildlife watchers in action and let them discover the advantages of bird-watching peacefully, at a decent distance and in a manner which people want to be part of.
New to wildlife folk, if they are really keen, will want to fit in with the rest, look and act the same given time. I really don't like this labelling of folks with silly names, after all we were all new to wildlifing once.
If their behaviour is such that the wildlife is being disturbed, then gently point it out to them in a non confrontational way, as Wildone suggests. Some folk probably don't even know they are doing it.
Another point is, some of these people are probably paying members, to different organisations and the last thing wildlife needs is folk withdrawing their support and cash!

And of course, if they are really doing a diservice to the wildlife, then a call to the warden is needed.

Just my thoughts on the matter tis all.

[wellies101]

I agree with you totally adam. With any site, regardless of status (LNR, public, SSSI, NNR, etc.) I find it difficult to see how people can't put nature (flora and/or fauna) first as the site wouldn't be what it is without all the elements present being there in the first place.
However, I struggle to see why some form of information board can't be placed there. Someone must own the beach and if the RSPB site neighbours the "public" beach, couldn't they inform the council (if they own the beach) or owners what is going on and make a suggestion? It would be of benefit to the area and stop it degrading.
I'm sure the people causing this problem are enthusiastic and we shouldn't knock them for that and has been said before, we all have to start somewhere. And I'm sure the majority would apologise if they knew what potential disturbance they were causing. I'm not sticking up for them, believe me, just trying to understand why they might be doing it.

[Paul mabbott]

I'm not sure about the legalities but on the breeding beach at Lindisfarne there are notices up to the effect of, 'Do not walk on the beach from this point ...' with explanations. I see no reason why anyone shouldn't put up notices, they may not be able to enforce the exclusion legally but most sensible people would take heed?

Originally Posted by wildone

I think that the beach at Titchwell is a public beach reached in the main via the RSPB reserve but I have doubts that RSPB would have the right to put up notices on the beach itself. The only possibilities that I can see is for those that know to speak to the uninitiated in a nice way pointing out why there behaviour is a disturbance to the birds. Most people are reasonable when approached in a calm, friendly way.

wildone

[John]

Unfortunately, as has been said previously, this is a public beach which can be reached from various directions. Where would you site such boards. At high tide level, low tide level and also at what type of public would you word it to.

Anyone can walk along there from dog walkers to frisbee throwing children.

It is a beach like any general beach, with the exception that this beach can have a healthy population of waders at its waters edge that can be easily disturbed.

I doubt very much if anything can control the comings and goings along that stretch (or any other stretch of beach) where the general public have access.

On popular birding areas, such as Titchwell, I think a lot of this could be policed by birders themselves but it comes with a risk, something I stated earlier. There is an element of birders that think what they do is right and yet it flies in the face of common sense. To challenge this sort of birder is fraught with danger, i.e arguments and confrontation (both of which I have been witness to and party to).

We have all seen this selfless attitude in many places. It is not only in areas such as this but throughout the length and breadth of Britain where getting up close is deemed as necessary (even if you have a scope with a 60x mag) and never mind the fact that you can stand a few hundred yards away and still see the whites of their eyes so to speak.

It also comes down to how do you justifiably tell a birder not to go too close to these birds and yet the general public can innocently walk within a few yards of them and dog walkers can have their dogs running loose amongst them and are not doing anything legally wrong in doing so.

It's a tricky one and one that I must admit is virtually impossible to impose.

John

[Adam Cheeseman]

As all of the people present on the day I mentioned came from the RSPB reserve itself any signage could be sited at the point where the path meets the sand dunes. This is the only point where people can get to the beach from the reserve. As far as wording goes I would suggest something along the lines of please do not pass the old brick structure on the beach to avoid disturbing the wildlife. Or words to that effect. As has been said, it is a public beach (I believe the Queen owns the land between mean high and low water marks, not sure about the upper beach), all the other users on the beach of which there are usually a few have to be tolerated as they generally move on from where they have come to where they are going (usually Brancaster) anyway.

Cheers,

Adam

[coasty]

Originally Posted by Rich_

There seems to be a tendency in these times Adam, for people to want to specialise in things like bird watching, fishing, rambling and other things & to pursue the interest in a crowd & own all the "right" gear & look the part. (you must use two "ski" poles to be considered a serious Rambler or fell walker now it would seem)

What many of them lack is a general awareness & knowledge of nature, and what they don't realise is that you'll see far more wildlife sitting still in the right place for an hour on your own than charging round pursuing it all day. As you say they were bird watchers, and many probably wouldn't have noticed any interesting wild flowers or anything else that may have been there to see.

Totally agree with Rich over this. It does seem to me that this is a real problem. I think that partly the problem is that so many people live life so far divorced from the nature around them they are closed to everything apart from there special interest. However I have also seen a rare migrant hounded to exhaustion by busloads of Twitchers. These surely are what you would call serious birders?

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by coasty

Totally agree with Rich over this. It does seem to me that this is a real problem. I think that partly the problem is that so many people live life so far divorced from the nature around them they are closed to everything apart from there special interest. However I have also seen a rare migrant hounded to exhaustion by busloads of Twitchers. These surely are what you would call serious birders?

As a birder of some 24 years I have seen this behaviour on a number of occasions and I certainly don't condone what you describe. Personally if I go to see a rare bird and know that it is there but can't be seen because of vegetation etc. I won't go stomping through just to see the backside of it disappear into the next patch of veg. There are a wide variety of birder types each with their own passions for their hobby. The majority are responsible, well behaved people. It is just the few that give the rest a bad name.
I don't think that (bad twitchers) is totally connected with what I originally described though as, by and large, I think most of those on the beach were oblivious to the fact that they were causing a problem for the birds. One or two were there purely to get the close-up photo or view and should have known better, but has already been mentioned we unfortunately get them quite a lot and probably always will.

Cheers,

Adam

[Vixen]

it's all comes down to respect, something not many people have anymore.

Myself, I am a newbie at all this been birding on and off since Nov last year. I only have a pair of small binonoculars, the amount of times I have been in a hide and people have gone on about this bird "over there" and to me it's only a dot. It so so frustating. There was one guy using his scope and watching some brent geese no way could I see what they where, not once did he say would anyone like a look. Sometimes I even hate walking into a hide, because of the looks you can get.

then we been to other places where we been welcomed into the hide with a smile, chatted quietly about the birds, and with help seen birds I would have never have have spotted, due to lack of exsperiance.

we are always quiet and respectful to all the birds and people we meet while out birding.


to be honest I think it a genrel everyday life thing, not just a birding thing.