Hedge Accentor?

[goosey]

I bought a 1998 edition of Kingfisher "Field Guide to the birds of GB and Ireland" at a car boot sale recently. It refers to Dunnocks as Hedge Accentors, I have heard them called Hedge Sparrows but why the name change? When? And why Dunnock?

[Dogghound]

Accentors are the family of birds that dunnocks belong to, along with the alpine accentor they are the only two accentors found in europe, its possibly just another name for them as oppose to hedge sparrow or dunnock.

[GuyF]

I think that Hedge Accentor is the internationally accepted and scientifically correct name, Dunnocks are in the Accentor family so it helps classify them properly. I suppose that Dunnock and Hedge Sparrow are English names for them.
I'm not too worried about Dunnocks being called Hedge Accentors as it makes sense really, but there are some international names I'll never get used to e.g Parasitic Jaegar for Arctic Skua
Guy

[John]

A Dunnock is a member of the Accentor group of birds, just as a Blackbird is a member of the Thrush family.

The only other member of the same family in Europe is the Alpine accentor and as their name implies they are hardly garden birds.

John

[ChrisJB]

Dear Goosey,

Dunnocks (or Hedge Sparrows) belong to a group of birds known as accentors. In mountainous areas of Europe can be found it's relative, the Alpine Accentor. In terms of accuracy, this should perhaps be it's name as it isn't a sparrow, though I've never heard anyone use it.

Apparently the name Dunnock, literally means, 'little brown bird'. Simple eh!

Regards, Chris

[Dogghound]

A bit repetative lol

[Paul mabbott]

Recently I saw a lot of dunnock-like birds in the Picos de Europa which, I'm told, are the Alpine accentor - they are very similar to dunnocks and obviously share the same seed-feeding niche. This is one of the reasons why it is useful to know the universal names of birds and the families to which they belong - birds in the same family will generally share similar appearance and behaviour and birds of the same genus will probably occupy similar environmental niches.

It would, probably, be easier to use their international, Latin names than local or 'international common' ones

[paulchandler6]

There are 2 other accentor species recorded in Europe as vagrants. Black-throated and Siberian. Long awaited in Britain. Maybe one day?

[Paul mabbott]

Much easier to use the 'proper', Latin names? I must admit that I don't commonly do it with birds but then I have little important contact with them!

Originally Posted by GuyF

I think that Hedge Accentor is the internationally accepted and scientifically correct name, Dunnocks are in the Accentor family so it helps classify them properly. I suppose that Dunnock and Hedge Sparrow are English names for them.
I'm not too worried about Dunnocks being called Hedge Accentors as it makes sense really, but there are some international names I'll never get used to e.g Parasitic Jaegar for Arctic Skua
Guy

[paulchandler6]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Much easier to use the 'proper', Latin names? I must admit that I don't commonly do it with birds but then I have little important contact with them!

Most if not all birders do not use the scientific names (unless in writing up reports etc), but really we should all know them or at least use the name along with the commoner English name, and as for Parasitic Jaeger. No way.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by paulchandler6

There are 2 other accentor species recorded in Europe as vagrants. Black-throated and Siberian. Long awaited in Britain. Maybe one day?

What about Radde's?

[Adam Cheeseman]

Dunnock is a very old English name derived from Dun Cock meaning a drab looking bird. Hedge Sparrow is an old colloquial name used by country folk. It liveS near hedges and lookS a bit like a sparrow hence Hedge Sparrow.

I'm no fan of americanisation of our common names and will definitely not be calling an Arctic Skua a Parasitic Jaeger or a Grey Phalrope a Red one.

Cheers,

Adam

[paulchandler6]

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

What about Radde's?

Sorry, forgot about that one. That makes 5. Cheers

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Much easier to use the 'proper', Latin names? I must admit that I don't commonly do it with birds but then I have little important contact with them!

Not sure if it is easier Paul. I do use latin names for birds if I'm tour leading abroad + working with a local leader who speaks little English for communication. Problem here is that like most other groups the taxonomists are changing the scientific names.

If I said Blue Tit to you, you would know what I'm talking about. If I said Cyanistes caerulea you probably wouldn't + unlikely to see it in your bird book where it will be Parus caerulea. According to latest nomenclature we only have 1 Parus now, P. major- the Great Tit. The other tits have been moved to various genera- Periparus, Lophanes, Cyanistes + Poecile. Yes we need to use them in scientific reports, but in general parlance I think for birds the regular English name is better+ we all know what we are talking about + that is the important thing- to communicate effectively about the organism we're discussing!

I realise for most invertebrates except perhaps for butterflies, macromoths, dragonflies + a couple of others we use the scientific names regularly + I'm not in favour of inventing English names for more specialist groups.

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

Not sure if it is easier Paul. I do use latin names for birds if I'm tour leading abroad + working with a local leader who speaks little English for communication. Problem here is that like most other groups the taxonomists are changing the scientific names.

If I said Blue Tit to you, you would know what I'm talking about. If I said Cyanistes caerulea you probably wouldn't + unlikely to see it in your bird book where it will be Parus caerulea. According to latest nomenclature we only have 1 Parus now, P. major- the Great Tit. The other tits have been moved to various genera- Periparus, Lophanes, Cyanistes + Poecile. Yes we need to use them in scientific reports, but in general parlance I think for birds the regular English name is better+ we all know what we are talking about + that is the important thing- to communicate effectively about the organism we're discussing!

I realise for most invertebrates except perhaps for butterflies, macromoths, dragonflies + a couple of others we use the scientific names regularly + I'm not in favour of inventing English names for more specialist groups.

Absolutely. Very well said.
It IS important to use Latin names for identification purposes, especially with invertebrates, but is at least equally as important to use common / english names in general conversation and discussion, and certainly teaching and or learning!
Wildlife is (or at least should be) for everyone, and I'm pretty sure that many would be put off from delving into a wonderful subject if all we did was use scientific names.
Eventually, (like me I guess), interested parties will look to the latin names - many of which are very descriptive / apt also, (with a latin dictionary to hand)!
I thoroughly enjoy discovering ALL the names for particular creatures, be they modern english or common, old english or folk, regional, national and of course scientific.
I find the differences fascinating!

Doug.

[goosey]

That question turned into an interesting thread, thanks for all your answers. I will now refer to my favourite "drab looking" "Little brown bird" as a Hedge Accentor, and let my husband wonder what on earth I am on about before I give him an answer! Thanks - I enjoyed reading all your posts .

[red kite]

Well basically a dunnock isnt a sparrow at all,although it does closely resemble a sparrow,thus the name 'hedge sparrow' ...however it does belong to a family of birds ' accentors' mainly from central and eastern Europe right through into Siberia-hope this helps

[red kite]

The term 'Accentor' is the family name of the dunnock,hedge sparrow hedge accentor,The name accentor is often used..whether experienced at the hobby or not..i except that the technical names can be off putting but in the case i feel the term Accentor could be used an it is used in the field by many birders I.E..someone interesed in birds on holiday in central europe may see a Alpine Accentor or a twitcher in the UK may see a Radde's Accentor,i do apologise if it seems i was being scientific,i was not trying to be ..was telling it like it is..
Tony