Marsh Tit or Willow Tit

[jdurbo]

I'm that rubbish at descriptions that i looked at a few pictures first, so here goes...
I think it was a marsh or willow tit and 100% not a great it.
Which am i more likely to have seen? and what are the main difference's in these two birds?
Im starting to think it's the perfume i'm wearing
Thanks you jen xxx

[Pete Collins]

Jen,

I'm no expert, but I believe Marsh Tit and Willow Tit are quite difficult to tell apart.

Perhaps if you gave some details of the habitat where you saw the bird, that might help someone more knowledgeable than me to answer your question. Was it in a wood, in a garden, near a stream/river, ... ? Did you hear it make any calls that you could describe?

You've ruled out Great Tit. Have you definitely ruled out Coal Tit, which I think is more common than Marsh and Willow Tits?

Pete

[John]

Marsh and Willow Tit are mainly seperated by call. Regarding plumage differences and body differences (hard with an untrained eye). The Willow has a larger head with a bull like neck and generally looks a more robust bird than a Marsh Tit. Marsh Tit has a Square (or slightly forked tail whereas the Willow Tit has a slightly rounded tail.

The black cap on a Willow Tit is dull whereas the Marsh is glossy. The Willow has a pale wing bar whereas the Marsh hasn't. The black bib under the neck is larger on the Willow Tit.

Here are some examples.
One of my photos of a Great Tit.
http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/ga...searchid=60199

One of my Blue Tit photos.


An excellent photo by glsammy of a Marsh Tit followed by another excellent shot from Wilf of another Marsh Tit.



Note on the first photo the lack of the light colour on the wing, whiteish on the Willow, as you can see on the Willow Tit photo. Also note on the 2nd Marsh Tit photo the glossy black cap. the Willow's will be dull.

Another excellent photo by glsammy of a Willow Tit.



Here is another Tit to consider. The Coal Tit. Following is a photo of mine of this species. Similar colours to Marsh and Willow but note the white crown stripe and the wing bars on this bird.


Hope that helps.

John

That is the

[John]

Marsh and Willow Tit are mainly seperated by call. Regarding plumage differences and body differences (hard with an untrained eye). The Willow has a larger head with a bull like neck and generally looks a more robust bird than a Marsh Tit. Marsh Tit has a Square (or slightly forked tail whereas the Willow Tit has a slightly rounded tail.

The black cap on a Willow Tit is dull whereas the Marsh is glossy. The Willow has a pale wing bar whereas the Marsh hasn't. The black bib under the neck is larger on the Willow Tit.

Here are some examples.
One of my photos of a Great Tit.


One of my Blue Tit photos.


An excellent photo by glsammy of a Marsh Tit followed by another excellent shot from Wilf of another Marsh Tit.



Note on the first photo the lack of the light colour on the wing, whiteish on the Willow, as you can see on the Willow Tit photo. Also note on the 2nd Marsh Tit photo the glossy black cap. the Willow's will be dull.

Another excellent photo by glsammy of a Willow Tit.


Here is another Tit to consider. The Coal Tit. Following is a photo of mine of this species. Similar colours to Marsh and Willow but note the white crown stripe and the wing bars on this bird.


Hope that helps.

John

That is the

[glsammy]

Nicely described and shown John.

Taking all that into consideration, and knowing the differences, I'm only really certain when I've heard them!

[jdurbo]

Thank you for your replys and lovely pictures!!
Im still not sure i will look out for it again today.
What i can tell you is that when i first saw it, it was just under the top of the fence picking at some little cobwebs then it had a peck at the niger seed and sunflower hearts, it also was pecking about on the stump and branches of the apple tree, also nipping into one of the bushes nearby.
I did'nt hear it( but then i dont know the sounds of most birds yet).
It was in my garden that i saw it and there are alot of trees,bushes and hedges around the gardens nearby, and also i live very close to the m1 so there are alot of trees there.
hope that sheds some light onto things.
I must sort out a camera soon this will never do
jen xxx

[jdurbo]

Finally got a picture. Its the one on the left obviously!

Jen xxx

[glsammy]

From that angle and image size, I wouldn't like to say which it is. It's either a Willow Tit or a Marsh Tit, definitely not a Coal Tit.
It's got very little front bib, which tends to suggest a Willow Tit, but I wouldn't bet on it!

[John]

At least we have it down to Marsh / Willow but from that photo I wouldn't like to give a firm ID but looking at that cap it seems to extend more than I would expect it to on the Marsh so I would go for Willow to. It also looks a bit more robust than I would expect a marsh to look but that could be down to angles.

BTW Graham, the Willow has the larger bib of the two tits.

John

[jdurbo]

Hi
I will try and take another picture and pop it on here when i get one.
jen xxx

[John]

Hi Jen

Try and get a side shot if you can. If you can get a half decent shot it should show if the bird has a pale wing panel or not.

John

Originally Posted by jdurbo

Hi
I will try and take another picture and pop it on here when i get one.
jen xxx

[Eco-Logical]

Depending on where you are i think it will be a willow tit?
The call for the willow tit is distinctive, it repeats the same call which sounds a little like zi zi zi zi....i have a personal opinion that the bird only makes this sound when a human is near? If you are walking along in the open, perhaps in a woodland? They make the zi zi zi zi call?
But i have been in hides with cattle and farm animals outside and seen them and they dont make the zi zi call, but as soon as a human came into its field of view it begins making the call?
But this is just my opinion i am probaly very wrong? LOL..

Eco.

[Oscar2006]

Originally Posted by Eco-Logical

Depending on where you are i think it will be a willow tit?
The call for the willow tit is distinctive, it repeats the same call which sounds a little like zi zi zi zi....i have a personal opinion that the bird only makes this sound when a human is near? If you are walking along in the open, perhaps in a woodland? They make the zi zi zi zi call?
But i have been in hides with cattle and farm animals outside and seen them and they dont make the zi zi call, but as soon as a human came into its field of view it begins making the call?
But this is just my opinion i am probaly very wrong? LOL..

Eco.

I have them visit my garden daily. They make the cheee, cheee, cheee call anytime.
I've been indoors hundreds of times with nobody else nearby and can hear them calling.

[Eco-Logical]

Oscar... perhaps in a garden where humans are known to them to be, they do indeed call and make their call but i am talking about their natural environment? I.E a wild place?
But i should think you are correct?

Eco.

[jdurbo]

Hi
I have heard a repeated sound when it has been around and its a much deeper sound than the squeak from blue and great tits.
jen xxx

[Oscar2006]

My garden is suburban - I back onto a railway line and then the countryside, so that is a wild place.
They use the garden because I and my neighbour provide occasional food for all sorts of birds. I also hear birds call like this at my local (but private) nature reserve, they call just the same whether humans are visible or not.

It is an intersting idea, but I'm nowhere near convinced that they call in a certain way just because humans are present
Perhaps a Doctorate is available here if you have the dedication to study and produce a thesis?

[glsammy]

Originally Posted by jdurbo

Hi
I have heard a repeated sound when it has been around and its a much deeper sound than the squeak from blue and great tits.
jen xxx

Eco description is spot on, you can't mistake it. Always a constant zi zi zi......

The Marsh Tit note is like a sneeze, a "pitchoo", nothing like the Willows.

[jdurbo]

Well i think i will camp in the shed for a while tomorrow and try and get a better photo.
jen xxx

[John]

Originally Posted by jdurbo

Hi
I have heard a repeated sound when it has been around and its a much deeper sound than the squeak from blue and great tits.
jen xxx

It will be a Willow then as the Marsh call is a Pitchoo type of call.

John