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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22-05-2007, 08:07 PM
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What do you think of falconry?

What do you think of falconry?
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Old 25-05-2007, 11:29 AM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

I don't think they've done themselves any favours by allowing themselves to work with foxhunts to try and find loopholes in the hunting act. It shows some of them have a total disregard for their birds.

Personally I prefer too see birds in their natural environment. What is your view WildSam?
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Old 25-05-2007, 11:31 AM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

WildSam, this is probably in the wrong section for more replies.
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Old 25-05-2007, 01:39 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Also see this

Falconry, Good/Bad?
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Old 25-05-2007, 08:59 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin s View Post
I don't think they've done themselves any favours by allowing themselves to work with foxhunts to try and find loopholes in the hunting act. It shows some of them have a total disregard for their birds.

Personally I prefer too see birds in their natural environment. What is your view WildSam?
I have read about that. It is not the falconers using the loopholes. I have read that foxhunts are paying people stupid amounts of money to hunt and look after an eagle and most of the time they do not know anything about hunting or even how to look after a bird. A true falconer would never put money before the health and safety of there bird.
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Old 26-05-2007, 01:02 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildSam View Post
Come on people, this could be a interesting thread.
except that

a) there is already a thread about this - Falconry, Good/Bad? see gill's post,

and

b) this thread is in the wildlife and environment jobs forum , which aint really the best place for a debate about falconry
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Old 26-05-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyore View Post
except that


b) this thread is in the wildlife and environment jobs forum , which aint really the best place for a debate about falconry
sorry
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Old 08-06-2007, 04:45 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

I like to see wild animals in there natural habitat, but i love Owls and BoP and i reckon Falconry`s a great idea because people get to handle the birds and feed them etc, and to me that`s heaven.
Mind you i`ve yet to do it.
But can`t wait till i do.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:08 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

think its only a good idea if the chick was an orphan that could not be released into the wild, other than that it dunt do anything for me these birds should be flying out in the wild not couped up.
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:08 AM
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Talking Re: What do you think of falconry?

i have a buzzard and might get a goshawk
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:09 AM
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Red face Re: What do you think of falconry?

who heard about Camperdown park in Dundee
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:12 AM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

I don't like the hunting but a don't mind flying it!!
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:04 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

to me falconry is not hunting in the way say deer or Fox hunters work it is more about timing when the bird does what it does naturally , we are not breeding or changing the breeds to hunt specifically we are observing the natural way of the bird . true they are on perches for long periods and are kept in aviaries but they seem none the worse for that.
i have had the privileg to flight a peregrine from my horse over my 2 Hungarian vislas on a highland estate and i have to say it was the most exciting time ever.
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Old 06-07-2007, 02:52 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Still,i think its always better to see these beutiful birds flying in the wild ,and hunting of their own accord
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Old 11-07-2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmX View Post
we are not breeding or changing the breeds to hunt specifically .

Unfortunately that's not the case I believe peregrine / Lanner/ Saker hybrids are specifically bred to increase the hunting ability and inline (in)breeding as is used to 'improve' the abilities as is used in pedigree dogs as such hybridisation or inbreeding is rare in the wild Its not really something I approve of.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:34 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

oh man,thats horrible!i had never heard of that going on before...thanks gill,youre always full of info.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:07 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherp View Post
i have a buzzard and might get a goshawk

big big difference between flying a buzzard and flying a gos.you say you do not like to hunt then i think you will struggle to find some one to sell you a gos.as these birds are cost wise somewhere between £800-£1500 and take a huge amount of time to man down i do not think a gos is for you.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:55 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

id say dont bother with a gos as you dont wish to hunt stick with your buzzard as there is only a small minority of these that get entered. they give spectacular flights so what else could you ask for
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Old 13-07-2007, 03:46 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

gill i have never found any breeding cross of falcons to be entered by my friends and i know the Dubai falconers personally and they will only breed from successful pure birds

my own uk experience is that i have heard tales of cross breeding but i have never actually seen one , i would welcome the chance to see any photos or a web sight if you know of it

i have never seen a wild cross breed but i have seem hen harriers and peregrines working together to catch prey
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Old 13-07-2007, 04:05 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmX View Post
gill i have never found any breeding cross of falcons to be entered by my friends and i know the Dubai falconers personally and they will only breed from successful pure birds

my own uk experience is that i have heard tales of cross breeding but i have never actually seen one , i would welcome the chance to see any photos or a web sight if you know of it

i have never seen a wild cross breed but i have seem hen harriers and peregrines working together to catch prey

no its one of those word of mouth things, I was chatting to a falcolner at our work do and he has apparently seen one flown. I was reading recently about the plummeting wild population of Saker, someone got sentanced to death in I think it was China for smuggling some in
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Old 13-07-2007, 07:34 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmX View Post
gill i have never found any breeding cross of falcons to be entered by my friends and i know the Dubai falconers personally and they will only breed from successful pure birds

my own uk experience is that i have heard tales of cross breeding but i have never actually seen one , i would welcome the chance to see any photos or a web sight if you know of it
If you google peregrine/saker or lanner/saker you'll get plenty of hits with photos. I've seen one or two Peregrine/Sakers, one female in particular was extremely impressive with massive feet!
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Old 13-07-2007, 08:11 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

I own male Harris Hawk which I fly daily throughout most of the year - except Summer months when he is moulting. I do not care whether he hunts successfully or not - in fact most hunting trips by Falconers end in failure. To me, watching him soar then fly to the hand is the most exhilarating experience and I challenge anybody who has ever had the experience to call me wrong.
Falconry is not a hobby - it is a way of life. Most of my time is spent looking after him, I cannot holiday without being sure that I can find somebody who will look after him.
People will always argue that these birds should be in the wild. Maybe- but then so should pet Rabbits, parrots, budgies etc etc.
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Old 13-07-2007, 09:18 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

islayhawk,you have a damn good point,but i have never liked the idea of pet birds(or not so pet in the case of birds of prey)let alone ones that should be soaring free 50 ft up in the clouds!oh well,i suppose everyone has they're right of a different opinion....
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Old 14-07-2007, 12:00 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

I have also posted this in the linked thread, I hope you dont mind the double post?

************************************************** ************

Ok, Ill try again having typed out a huge post it went walk about!

Firstly a brief introduction, I am a practising falconer based in Cheshire, we fly both longwings (Falcons), Broadwings(Hawks) and Owls.

Having read this thread with interest, I have noticed several inaccuracies, but instead of challenging individuals directly about these I though I would just do a post explain about falconry in general and my views on the subjects raised.

Hopefully it will give you food for thought at least.

The word falconry itself means : Hunting of game with falcons. The art of training falcons for hunting. (It is derived from the french word for falcon)

As has been previously mentioned on this thread the most common BoP (Bird of Prey) being used for falconry in this country is the Harris Hawk, a bird from the Southern States of the USA, in the wild these birds often hunt in family groups and this can also be replicated in captivity, with HH (Harris Hawks) being flown as a "Cast" (A group) Almost without exception now, these birds are all bred in captivity in the UK (Very few, if any birds are imported from America any longer)

A young HH would be taken from its parents (Most HH are parent reared) at about 15/18 weeks of age, to start its life as a Falconers bird (Although those who fly hawks are more correctly known as Austringers) This would then involve "Manning" the bird, which means making it steady on the fist and introducing it all the sights and sounds of the big bad world, much as you would socialise a puppy. From there you would get the bird jumping from its perch to the first for food (Still on its leash) once it is doing this constantly you would then move on getting the bird to "fly" to the fist whilst attached using a line called a creance, once you have the bird flying about 50m to the fist with an instant response, it is time to fly it free! You can usually achieve this with a HH in about 10/14 days. All our birds are flown wearing "telemetry" or radio tracking devices, it is foolish to fly a bird without, as even the best trained HH could decide to go wandering after anything at anytime, when flying free.

Although we aim to hunt, Rabbits and pheasant with our HH, and they are very good at it, at the end of the day it is the bird itself that decides what it will chase and on occasions, when the dog has flushed something for the hawk, it is not unusual to see the hawk vanish after a butterfly or a frog! BoP do NOT hunt for fun, they hunt for food, this is the same for them returning to the falconer, they do not do so out of "affection" but do so for food. Successful BoP management is all about weight control.

I did raise a smile with one of the posts, when someone mentioned watching a falconry display and it involved all "foreign" birds EXCEPT the Peregrine x Gyr Hybrid, whilst we all know the Peregrine is native to the UK, the Gyr is not, so technically speaking this is not a British bird and would not occur naturally in the wild, which brings me on to the next point that has been raised in this thread several times - Hybrids!

Well, unlike dogs where you put two breeds together and what comes out is pot luck (I am a professional Gundog Trainer by trade, so know a thing or two about dogs ) You may end up with the worse of both breeds or nothing that resembles either!! In falconry it is totally different. Almost all of the hybrids are produced using AI (Artificial insemination) although depending on what you want, they chicks are still either parent reared or imprinted - imprinting means that you raise them yourself from day one as part of the family, they go everywhere with you 24/7. I will use the Gyr x Pere hybrid as an example as it has already been mentioned by someone on this thread. We fly a male (Tiercel) Gyr x Per hybrid, he flies at 1lb 11oz, he is a big powerful bird and is used to hunt Grouse, Partridge and Ducks. In the wild a Peregrine Tiercel would struggle to consistently take quarry of this size, he would weigh in the region of 1lb 4oz - 1lb 7oz, we all know how fast the wild peregrine is and how agile! add to this combination the Gyr Falcon which is a big and powerful bird and you have the best of both worlds, a large powerful falcon with a tremendous turn of speed, that can either "wait on" which means climb to a great height and stoop down on its prey or can be flown out of the hood from the fist as a pursuit falcon.

There are lots of other hybrids out there, all with their reasons for being produced, but for me to write about each would take an age!

Someone on here voiced their concerns about the risks to native BoP in the UK form all these "foreign" birds, I am a little confused as to what they mean by this, so would be very interested in hearing their concerns.

Whilst I would in no way wish to change someones views on a subject, I would be happy if they would sit and think through what I have written and the reasons behind it, I am happy to expand on anything I have covered and time permitting I would during the coming season offer to anyone who wanted to see a BoP in the field, then they would be more than welcome to accompany me (But be warned my birds do hunt and kill)

Apart from HH, we also fly the Gyr x Per, a kestrel and owls.

Here are a few pics of some of our birds, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask them and hopefully I can answer them (Sorry this post is not as long as the one I lost - but it was quite annoying to lose it!!)























Regards

Mike
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Old 14-07-2007, 07:40 PM
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Re: What do you think of falconry?

I love it!

I want to take it up a little later in life when i have some more pocket money, eg the kids leave home. I would love to use native birds but understand it is a more difficult task compared to others.
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