Red-crested Pochards .... wild or not?

[rlchew]

Does anyone know the true status of Red-crested Pochards in the UK?

I see these ducks fairly regularly at both Abberton Reservoir and Hanningfield Reservoir in Essex and always include them as a year record.

However, I seem to recall that there is doubt as to whether or not there are genuine wild birds in the UK .... often a problem with ducks of dubious origin!

I saw a male and female Red-crested Pochard at Hanningfield Reservoir today (during a vain hope of seeing migrating hirundines in a brisk and cold north-easterly wind) hence prompting my question.

I have taken the liberty of adding one of Graham's photos of a Red-crested Pochard for those that do not know what these stunning ducks look like .... I did not have my cmaera with me so I was unable to get a photo of today's birds.



Richard

[eeyore]

they are definitely wild , as in non captive, but whether they are native or feral is another question

[John]

The Hanningfield res ones are feral. I don't know about the Abberton ones. I used to watch the hanningfield birds taking feed from passer by's, surely an indication on their true status.

There are certainly wild ones around. If they are distant and wary of humans you have a chance of it being wild.

In the end though it's your list and you do with it what you may.

John

[rlchew]

I guess that the "do they take food from humans or are they wary?" is a good criteria for determining the wild v. feral debate.

The birds that I saw today were with some relatively tame Mallards and an odd assortment of other ducks .... and bread was on hand .

Feral it is then .

Richard

[glsammy]

Originally Posted by rlchew

Does anyone know the true status of Red-crested Pochards in the UK?

I see these ducks fairly regularly at both Abberton Reservoir and Hanningfield Reservoir in Essex and always include them as a year record.

However, I seem to recall that there is doubt as to whether or not there are genuine wild birds in the UK .... often a problem with ducks of dubious origin!

I saw a male and female Red-crested Pochard at Hanningfield Reservoir today (during a vain hope of seeing migrating hirundines in a brisk and cold north-easterly wind) hence prompting my question.

I have taken the liberty of adding one of Graham's photos of a Red-crested Pochard for those that do not know what these stunning ducks look like .... I did not have my cmaera with me so I was unable to get a photo of today's birds.



Richard

I was going to say that's a good shot Richard! I didn't recognise it as one of mine. That particular one is feral, It was at a bird rescue centre. They're free to go, and often do, but come back regularly to feed.

[eeyore]

how do garden birds such as bluetits etc which are regularly fed stand then - if you're not careful you're going to have to dramatically shorten your list

[glsammy]

Originally Posted by eeyore

how do garden birds such as bluetits etc which are regularly fed stand then - if you're not careful you're going to have to dramatically shorten your list

A very good point Pete!

[rlchew]

Originally Posted by eeyore

how do garden birds such as bluetits etc which are regularly fed stand then - if you're not careful you're going to have to dramatically shorten your list

And the Black-headed Gulls at Hanningfield Reservoir that are partial to a slice or two of Hovis .

Richard

[John]

Originally Posted by eeyore

how do garden birds such as bluetits etc which are regularly fed stand then - if you're not careful you're going to have to dramatically shorten your list

Sorry Pete but you can't use birds that become used to feeders as a comparison. For one thing in virtually every case as soon as a human starts to go near the feeders they are off. You get the odd one that will get used to humans but that is not the norm

The likes of Blue Tits are getting used to humans feeding them but the likes of R C Pochards are not British and where the wild ones come from would not be used to human intervention (i.e being fed bread etc).

It is doubtful that the birds that come to feeders are anything other than resident birds. It is also doubtful that Blue Tits, or any other feeder birds, are migrants. The migrants will be truly wild and more than likely stay away.

That is the difference. A truly wild bird (that is a migrant, and true R C Pochards are migrants) will stay away.

John

[John]

Originally Posted by glsammy

I was going to say that's a good shot Richard! I didn't recognise it as one of mine. That particular one is feral, It was at a bird rescue centre. They're free to go, and often do, but come back regularly to feed.

And that is the main problem with these birds. There are so many feral ones around that it is hard to find a wild one.

We have two that have just turned up in the Midlands. I haven't gone for them as they are more than likely feral. It's a shame as they are nice ducks to look at.

John

[Pete]

there are quite a few ducks/geese that are dodgy.

I tend to tick the Hanningfield RCP's on the grounds that they are probably as valid as any RCP I'm likely to see. I did draw the line at the ones in St james Park which were with Pelican's and Emperor Geese

You will see a number of birders ticking American ducks and I bet a few of them are of highly unproven provenance.

its your list....

I'm not certain how relevant the bread argument is in some locations. I was twitching (ahem yes I do occasionally) an Alpine Swift in London last year. It was going over a pond on Hampstead Heath and the Tufties were quite happily going for bread.

There are some strange birds you can tick. You can tick Golden Pheasant but not Black Swan. I'm pretty certain there are more breeding pairs of the later in the wild.

[aeshna5]

Red-crested Pochards are a difficult one- there's a large feral population in the Cotswold Country Park which did at one point number over 100 birds. There are good numbers seen around London- saw 3 fully winged birds on the Serpentine yesterday + in the autumn in recent years when I do my monthly Pen Pond wildfowl counts in Richmond Park I've had up to 15 RCP which turn up same time as c100 Wigeon + c200-300 Gadwall + then disappear around the same time as these obviously wild birds, yet I doubt these RCP are of wild origin?

A lot of birders talk about the bread test + though I wouldn't expect a migrant bird to come straight to bread, so many wild ducks do become habituated to handouts.Go to various London parks + the local Mallard are joined by wild Tufted Duck, Pochard + I've even seen Shoveler + Gadwall come to bread, though not as frequently. These are birds that have joined the local residents for the winter from northern+ eastern Europe. Go to New York + the Ring-necked Ducks will be waiting for bread. So it's not fool proof.

At the end of the day it's an attractive bird + if it's fully winged + not in an obvious collection it's up toyou whether you want to count it or not. Your local bird society will still be interested in having the record.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Pete

but not Black Swan. I'm pretty certain there are more breeding pairs of the later in the wild.

there are at least 2 pair of black swans breeding and living wild at caldecotte lake in milton keynes

i dont twich so i dont tick but if i did i wouldnt tick these I tend to believe that these have to be feral because they have hardly flown here from oz

[Pete]

Originally Posted by eeyore

there are at least 2 pair of black swans breeding and living wild at caldecotte lake in milton keynes

i dont twich so i dont tick but if i did i wouldnt tick these I tend to believe that these have to be feral because they have hardly flown here from oz

if you are into listing, hello john, you usually count birds listed by the BOU (or by the UK400 club) the BOU only lists feral birds that are deemed to have a self sustaining population. So Canada Geese are ok Bar Headed Geese aren't.

Black Swans are currently viewed as non self sustaining but as I said I reckon there are more of these than Golden Pheasants.

The BOU list various categories of bird seeen in the wild from A-E British Ornithologists Union: The British List Categories
only a-c is really tickable.

red crested pochard is considered to be ac2 (a) Species that have been recorded in an apparently natural state at least once since 1 January 1950 and (c2) Naturalized established species - species with established populations resulting from introduction by Man, but which also occur in an apparently natural state, e.g. Greylag Goose Anser anser

[rlchew]

I think John is probably correct in saying that the Hanningfield Reservoir birds are feral.

However, whether wild or feral they are beautiful ducks.

I went back again to Hanningfield Reservoir last Thursday this time with my camera ....












Richard

[aeshna5]

Smashing birds + good pictures. Agree they are most likely feral + they do seem to becoming more widespread.

[jonesboy58]

Originally Posted by John

Sorry Pete but you can't use birds that become used to feeders as a comparison. For one thing in virtually every case as soon as a human starts to go near the feeders they are off. You get the odd one that will get used to humans but that is not the norm

The likes of Blue Tits are getting used to humans feeding them but the likes of R C Pochards are not British and where the wild ones come from would not be used to human intervention (i.e being fed bread etc).

It is doubtful that the birds that come to feeders are anything other than resident birds. It is also doubtful that Blue Tits, or any other feeder birds, are migrants. The migrants will be truly wild and more than likely stay away.

That is the difference. A truly wild bird (that is a migrant, and true R C Pochards are migrants) will stay away.

John

How about this one's feeding habits John

[almostnormal]

red crested pochards are not native to britain, although they do over winter in the very south east of england. they are a continental breed found mainly around the med and in central europe, with another strong breeding population near turkey. any that are breeding in england are feral. they were introduced a bit more widely by rich gentry types because of their distinctive plummage, as were harlequins, mandarins and, worst of all, the ruddy duck. there are a couple of other notable escapees and ferals down south, for example parakeets and budgies, both of which are doing quite well, and also a pair of azure magpies. these escaped from paignton and have now had several successful breeding attempts.

[aeshna5]

We've certainly got plenty of Ring-necked Parakeets down here, but there's no breeding population of Budgies, though they often escape, as do Cockatiels. There have been free flying groups in the past like homing pigeons, but these have never persisted.

[almostnormal]

the ring necked parakeets are wicked to see. i think its the number of escaped budgies my mate must have been refferring to then, they keep eating her bird seed in the summer!

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by almostnormal

the ring necked parakeets are wicked to see. i think its the number of escaped budgies my mate must have been refferring to then, they keep eating her bird seed in the summer!

I only ever see odd singletons, so I suspect what your friend is seeing, is something other than budgies if there are several birds coming to feeders eating all the seed. Any chance of a photo?