Big or little Dipper

[wildherbalian85]

Originally Posted by carlos_dfc

Nope - sadly not the Big or Little Dipper....

The 'bowl' of the Big Dipper is a trapezoidal shape, whereas the bowl of the Little Dipper is more rectangular.
The 'bowl' in your pic, is trapezoidal - however the Big Dipper's 'handle' has a bend in it, halfway along - the handle of yours curves away, more like the handle of the Little Dipper - It actally curves too much, even for the little dipper.
Also - Both Dippers are pretty-much due North all the time - Not East
Last night at about 10 - the extent of the Big Dipper was spread across the lower/middle area of the sky to the North - The little dipper would have been hanging almost vertically, bowl at the bottom, with the handle curving away upwards and to the right.

How high up were you pointing the camera (low - middle - high ?)
And were you using any 'zoom' at all?
(an estimate of the picture's scale may help with ID)

I'm afraid to say but this is the little dipper... and as was mentioned in the post made by me which followed the post in which i mention it pointing east, the camera might have been upside down or even at a funny angle.

Take a look at chart linked by Loripo -

[nytecam]

Originally Posted by wildherbalian85

I tested my new camera last night on the stars and got this.... Ok i needed a little tweaking to bring out the best but i was surprised with just how many stars it caught... even i didn't see this many

What camera did you use and what exposure duration and ISO setting? I think you may have recorded some hot pixels [amongst the stars] which record as false stars but not sure - keep experimenting

[carlos_dfc]

Originally Posted by wildherbalian85

I'm afraid to say but this is the little dipper...

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

The 'bowl' of what you say is the dipper in your pic, is the wrong shape.
As I said further up, the bowl of the real Little Dipper is far more rectangular.
And the 'handle' in your pic is way too short, and curved far too sharply.

I'll superimpose the enlarged portion of your pic onto a star-chart to show what I mean...
Gimme a few mins to do it.....

[carlos_dfc]

Here we go.....

Using sky-mapping software 'Cartes du Ciel'...
I cropped the section of the sky containing the Little Dipper, then rotated it to the same orientation as the enlarged section of your pic....
Also re-sized the image from 'Cartes du Ciel' so that the distance between the two top stars of the Dipper's 'bowl', matched two similarly positioned stars in your pic...

Next, heavily tinted the image from the software in green.
And heavily tinted your image in red.
Then superimposed one layer on top of the other, and switched layer mode to 'lighten' - so that both layers show through each other.
Last of all, slid one layer around to match up the two top 'bowl' stars.
(I actually offset them by a couple of pixels, so that both can easily be seen on the black background)

As you can see from the pic...
Apart from those two stars - the bowls are distinctly different shapes.
And the 'handle' in your pic (red), is too short, and far too heavily curved.
And as well as the stars in the Dipper - none of the other stars in the field match up either.
As Nytecam says, there may be a few hot pixels in your pic, but that doesn't explain the fact that almost all the green stars from the chart, don't have a red 'dot' within a few pixels of them (apart from the two I lined up)



It would be nice to track down what stars they are in your pic, but I'm afraid that little pattern at the bottom isn't the Little Dipper.

[wildherbalian85]

I can't see any dipper in yours

[loripo]

I've tried sitting backfrom the screen and looking at just the green 'stars' and I cant see a dipper configuration either. And if it's not - then what is it.

[pressld2]

Try this version - I've made the green lines connecting the stars in the constellation more prominent...



As has been said you would have to have been pointing your camera north to photograph the little dipper. The star at the end of the handle furthest from the bowl is Polaris - the North Star.

Dave P.

P.s. Can I just say that I loathe the names Big and Little Dipper. To me these constellations have always been the great and little bears. A big dipper is a fairground ride and a little dipper is a bird of fast flowing rivers. The implement used for serving soup is called a ladle not a dipper. Americans - tch!

[loripo]

Much better thanks. I was always taught that the Great Bear was called The Plough Am still wondering about this

[pressld2]

Yep, the great bear and the plough are the same constellation. I'm fine with the plough as an alternative name - it's just the big dipper that grates. It's probably my age!

Dave P.

[carlos_dfc]

Originally Posted by pressld2

Try this version - I've made the green lines connecting the stars in the constellation more prominent...

Yep Dave - but those GREEN stars aren't on loripo's original.

They come from a screenshot of Cartes du Ciel (Sky-mapping software), which I superimposed onto loripo's original, in order to show that the stars in his pic aren't the Little Dipper (I also prefer 'Ursa Minor', or even the 'Little Bear')

The RED stars in that pic, are from loripo's original, and as you can see, they don't match up with Ursa Minor - nor do any of the other stars in that field.

I would be very interested if loripo can give any more details though - such as a rough estimate of how high into the sky the camera was pointed, whether any zoom was used, or if it was a wide-angle shot - any clues at all as to the direction and scale - then I may be able to match it up with a sky chart, and possibly track down what stars they are in the original photo.