Does Space really go on forever?

[ChristinaMarieUK]

Originally Posted by Birchy

The big bang!!! everyone is taking about it but who came up with the idea that there was such an event? I mean it's just an idea or theaory that someone has thourght of isn't it? And everyone just seems to accept that it's it. The big bang was the start of the universe. was it?

At first it was a theory in the common sense of the word. The conventional accepted theory being that the Universe is static and perhaps eternal. Later though, experiments provided evidence for the Big Bang and we now know the Universe is expanding and is not static.

Billions of years ago!!!!!!!!!. Do we really have any idea what happened. The fact that there was nothing before the big bang is mind blowing. So there was no time, matter, anything. I am thick really about all of this stuff and I started this thread but to say there was just nothing is silly. Then answer this. WHERE DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COME FROM, IF THERE WAS NOTHING TO START WITH WHERE DID IT COME FROM?. There must have been something there from the start to make the big bang.

Sorry for being so contriversal but what I am talking about makes sense to me. If there's nothing there then nothing can start. There was a therory that the universe has a cycle, like anything. It started then one day it will end and then it will all start again. That makes more sense to me.

I believe that God created the Universe. Sometimes people ask 'but who made God?' but this is a red herring. If God is Eternal and outside Time, there is no cause and effect and the question is based on the assumption of cause and effect.

Another explanation is Big Bang / Big Crunch. This is the idea that before this present Universe, there was another one which had expanded then contracted then expanded again in infinitum. If this is true then the current Universe will one day reach a size where the force of gravity will be stronger than the forces of expansion and it will shrink. The Universe could do this, or it could reach a point of balance and stay a certain size, or it could expand forever.

[sometimes]

Originally Posted by ChristinaMarieUK

I believe that God created the Universe. Sometimes people ask 'but who made God?' but this is a red herring. If God is Eternal and outside Time, there is no cause and effect and the question is based on the assumption of cause and effect.

I believe man made god to explain the universe. We know considerably more than our ancestors, yet as far as I understand it they were no less intelligent, simply ignorant. Man invents make belief characters to explain things away. Take the tooth fairy - we tell kiddies about the tooth fairy, they believe, until their ignorance is relieved. It's man's way of coping with the infinite.

[Strontium]

Originally Posted by jnb

Well as in any material rather than a vacuum there will be the phenomenon of dispersion (the same phenomenon which gives rise to spectra in a prism). Then the dispersion is a function of wavelength and so the speed of light in a medium is a function of its frequency and thus energy. So by that measure as 'dark' is presumably lower energy than light then yes it will have a different speed.

Dark is about intensity, not wavelength - the speed of fewer photons will be the same as the speed of many photons. However if you are talking about standing waves, or interference effects, these can make the appearance of nodes or dark patches move at different speeds.

[Ipso Facto]

Originally Posted by ChristinaMarieUK

If the Universe is continually expanding, then what it is expanding into is nothing. In other words, space is being continually created. IMO.

If the Universe goes on forever, then the Universe must be everlasting. This would mean our night sky would be full of light from the stars and galaxies etc. There would be no darkness between the stars and galaxies from our vantage point.

I'm pretty sure that according to astrophysics that if someone was to travel into space towards the edge of the Universe, they would end up back where they started from, because of the curvature of space-time.

So what of the theory that there is actually more than one universe?

[ChristinaMarieUK]

There could well be more than one Universe, maybe Multiverse will replace Universe in the future. It still begs the question though, 'how did the Multiverse start?'

[ChristinaMarieUK]

Originally Posted by sometimes

I believe man made god to explain the universe. We know considerably more than our ancestors, yet as far as I understand it they were no less intelligent, simply ignorant. Man invents make belief characters to explain things away. Take the tooth fairy - we tell kiddies about the tooth fairy, they believe, until their ignorance is relieved. It's man's way of coping with the infinite.

What does the tooth fairy explain to small children? It is simply a story to help children cope with tooth loss. It doesn't explain anything, so I don't see how it compares at all to any concept of God. There are many concepts of God, of course.

[sometimes]

Originally Posted by ChristinaMarieUK

There are many concepts of God, of course.

Absolutely, whch is why I was keen to refer to god not God.

We are not good at coping, we 'invent' to help us cope. It's easier for a youngster to cope with teeth loss caused by a tooth fairy than understand any biological reasoning (though I was meaning more the magical disappearance of a tooth with replacement of a coin). And so it is with 'the universe' and other big stuff. It's easier to believe in a Sun god when you don't know what the sun is. For death we invented heaven, it's easier to cope with loss when we believe that 'there is a better place' - that there is a chance of being reunited.

I apologise, I seem to be going down a theological route, which is not appropriate for this thread and perhaps this forum. I will stop.

[MazH]

It was bound to happen though, wasn't it? Humans always want to know "why" even though there are often no easy answers.

[ChristinaMarieUK]

I think whenever the origin of the Universe is considered, it is appropriate to discuss whether there is a Creator of the Universe, however conceived, without getting into religion. Metaphysics as well as Theology discuss God or gods, whatever. Metaphysics being a branch of Philosophy without which we could not do Science.

I agree that every human society has invented stories to explain things, but disagree that that is an argument that proves there is no Creator. Every religion on Earth could be wrong, but there still could be a Creator.

[Strontium]

Originally Posted by Ipso Facto

So what of the theory that there is actually more than one universe?

Yeah, I believe why not, should there only be one universe? - but which one are we talking about? I don't believe in the many universes the theory that every time a choice is made the universe splits into 2, like 1 where this happened and the other where it didn't. I mean, this would mean that by simply not doing something a completely new universe, with all the matter, energy, but in a slightly different state suddenly comes into being. I guess the only way around this is that they existed side by side and had already been in existence from the start of the big bang, and only at a certain time when a choice was made, they became different and split from each other. But that doesn't help - what about choice? Does the 'universe' already know in the beginning how many multiverses it needs? Which one of the multiverses do we experience after our choice?