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25-09-2007, 04:09 PM
|  | Active Member | | Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nr Southampton
Posts: 62
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo  Thouigh only partly relevant a quote by einstein pops into my head "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Now that IS genius at work  | True, I mean he argues much of the latter part of his life against quantum mechanics, and by doing so helps the founders of that theory come up with some truely remarkable ideas that underpin mechanics on the very small scale. His own theory, on gravity had the erronious term that no one liked very much, about gravity being repulsive..(he didnt like it either) Now some of the brightest are trying to unite quantum theory and gravity, and even 11 dimensions and all 
Sorry k9, I was thinking about if there was quantum gravity, there would be a possibility that interactions would not occur. |
25-09-2007, 04:55 PM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Shepshed, Leicestershire
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| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Pondering this problem is a good substitute for counting sheep |
25-09-2007, 05:43 PM
| | Frozen | | Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 91
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9 I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I'm glad there are so many out there who are puzzling over the same questions that keep going through my mind. k9 | Yeah me too, it's very intersting.
Although I don't get much of it and can't even put in words the questions I want to ask |
25-09-2007, 06:49 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Scunthorpe, Nth Lincs
Posts: 1,611
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9 I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. | Me too, but two things have popped into my head.
1. "Does Space really go on forever?" The answer is probably 'Yes', which is why you can't get to heaven in a little row boat.
and
2. If the speed of light is 186,282 miles per second, what's the speed of dark ?
__________________ Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. Nature Photo's |
26-09-2007, 07:47 AM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
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Originally Posted by Tormentil 2. If the speed of light is 186,282 miles per second, what's the speed of dark ? | Well as in any material rather than a vacuum there will be the phenomenon of dispersion (the same phenomenon which gives rise to spectra in a prism). Then the dispersion is a function of wavelength and so the speed of light in a medium is a function of its frequency and thus energy. So by that measure as 'dark' is presumably lower energy than light then yes it will have a different speed. |
26-09-2007, 03:28 PM
| | Frozen | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: march, cambridgeshire
Posts: 2,176
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
you have all blown my mind,answer me this,if space goes on for ever whats forever.???? |
26-09-2007, 06:33 PM
|  | Knight Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chilterns
Posts: 7,894
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
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Originally Posted by naturelover you have all blown my mind,answer me this,if space goes on for ever whats forever.???? | and did time start ? if so what was there before it ? and does that mean it might stop 
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26-09-2007, 07:17 PM
| | Frozen | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: march, cambridgeshire
Posts: 2,176
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
hi eeyore you answered a question with another question,still dosnt answer what is forever no end,everything has got an end why not space.????? |
02-10-2007, 04:27 PM
| | Frozen | | Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 91
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
How do we know what the shape of the universe is? If I read and understood right I mean, It does make sense that it would be sphere-shaped. And can telescopes see that far?
Also, I'm fascinated by black holes but I don't understand most of what I've read about them. Like that jet that shoots out from a black hole is material it can't swallow, isn't it? So what happens to that material and how come the black hole can't swallow it, if it's so powerful? |
03-10-2007, 12:46 PM
| | Knight Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chilterns
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| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
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Originally Posted by hsl How do we know what the shape of the universe is? If I read and understood right I mean, It does make sense that it would be sphere-shaped. And can telescopes see that far? | Its shaped like a giant moose - everyone knows that 
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04-10-2007, 11:50 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Oxfordshire
Posts: 1,379
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
This is a fascinating thread, still trying to get my head around it all. Amazing concepts and theories. even the universe being "moose" shaped 
Good stuff keep it coming.
Paul
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07-10-2007, 08:59 AM
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Posts: 56
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Does space go on forever? After 61 posts to this thread and reading all the interesting theories to this question I think yes it does go on forever. Think about it we can all get all scientific about it and post thousands of questions and answers and after all that none of us really know the answer do we? But if space did end at some point what are you going to hit, a brick wall? or a big wooden door, locked. I think it must just keep on going forever. That still BLOWS MY MIND big style but I think it's right.
I can't thank you people out there enough for a fantastic thread and am just amaized how many people have posted replys. It's great!!!!
It would be great if people carry on posing to this thread and no doubt disagree with my conclusion. I would love this thread to become the longest thread as it was my first one I ever. And just to let you know it's the third longest on the astronomy forum so far.
Birchy
Last edited by Birchy; 07-10-2007 at 09:05 AM.
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10-10-2007, 11:14 AM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nr Southampton
Posts: 62
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Some of the experiments at CERN atm are all about trying to find the Higgs boson, and at teh same time get a glimpse into the other of the 11 dimensions that our 3D world is just an explosion in? perhaps our 3D world is just a bubble in the 11 dimensions, and they keep forming more universes when the membranes collide.. I guess we need to wait on what the experiments say about those dimensions before we can talk about whta an 11 dimension universe looks like |
26-10-2007, 01:47 PM
|  | Active Member | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: St Helens
Posts: 30
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
If the Universe is continually expanding, then what it is expanding into is nothing. In other words, space is being continually created. IMO.
If the Universe goes on forever, then the Universe must be everlasting. This would mean our night sky would be full of light from the stars and galaxies etc. There would be no darkness between the stars and galaxies from our vantage point.
I'm pretty sure that according to astrophysics that if someone was to travel into space towards the edge of the Universe, they would end up back where they started from, because of the curvature of space-time. |
26-10-2007, 02:41 PM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Yorkshire ( Gods Country )
Posts: 953
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
I think space does go on forever , some things do.. Take my wife for example .
Also the whole idea of the space time malarky fascinates me . There is a thing called the twins paradox which I find perplexing
Twins are split up and travel in space ships.The twins are each equipped with a clock and powerful telescopes so they can view each other's time. For the sake of interest, an obliging alien has placed a clock on the star synchronised to Earth time, which can be viewed both by Ann from Earth, and Bob during his space flight.
The theory proposes that the twins age at different times. There are lots of explanations on the net they are well worth a look if you feel that your mind needs stretching, this link is excellent Relativity Example - More Detail
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Last edited by coasty; 26-10-2007 at 02:47 PM.
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26-10-2007, 04:34 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: St Helens
Posts: 30
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
That reminds me of one of my faves. As well as asking 'what does the Universe expand into?' we can also ask 'what happened before the Big Bang?' The answer is the same - nothing. This is because time as well as space is created by the Big Bang. |
26-10-2007, 05:24 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: West Molesey, Surrey
Posts: 1,527
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambriel Blancmange? | If it's blackcurrant flavoured I'll get my spoon ready for when we get there. Did I mention I'm immortal
Cheers,
Adam |
26-10-2007, 05:31 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: West Molesey, Surrey
Posts: 1,527
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinaMarieUK That reminds me of one of my faves. As well as asking 'what does the Universe expand into?' we can also ask 'what happened before the Big Bang?' The answer is the same - nothing. This is because time as well as space is created by the Big Bang. | I'm afraid I know nothing of astrophysiscs and its terminology, but I once saw a programme that stated that the most likely origin of the big bang was that a particle that exists for only a fraction of a second in our dimesion was unstable and exploded thus resulting in the big bang. These particles have been proven to exist and they performed an experiment on the programme which showed this.
Incidentally there is nothing north of the North Pole because you start heading south again.
If beyond the edge of our universe is a vacuum as some have said, is there anything required to contain such a vacuum or can it self-sustaining on such a scale.
Cheers,
Adam |
29-10-2007, 09:09 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 56
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
The big bang!!! everyone is taking about it but who came up with the idea that there was such an event? I mean it's just an idea or theaory that someone has thourght of isn't it? And everyone just seems to accept that it's it. The big bang was the start of the universe. was it?
Billions of years ago!!!!!!!!!. Do we really have any idea what happened. The fact that there was nothing before the big bang is mind blowing. So there was no time, matter, anything. I am thick really about all of this stuff and I started this thread but to say there was just nothing is silly. Then answer this. WHERE DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COME FROM, IF THERE WAS NOTHING TO START WITH WHERE DID IT COME FROM?. There must have been something there from the start to make the big bang.
Sorry for being so contriversal but what I am talking about makes sense to me. If there's nothing there then nothing can start. There was a therory that the universe has a cycle, like anything. It started then one day it will end and then it will all start again. That makes more sense to me.
Last edited by Birchy; 29-10-2007 at 09:15 PM.
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30-10-2007, 01:21 AM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Wetherby, West Yorkshire
Posts: 127
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Aren't we waiting for the light from the other side of the visible universe outer limits to reach us, consequently we can't know what's out there for certain. Also if the universe is expanding, it seems sensible that matter on the outside is moving fastest away from us, (hence red shift?), there must be a point where matter is travelling so much faster than us we can't see it as it's travelling at the speed of light?
We can move backwards and forwards in three different dimensions, unfortunately we can only travel through time at a constant rate in one direction relative to us as individuals, not necessarily each other.
Of course there is no 'before the big bang' since time didn't exist before it.
A supplementary question, has the centre of the universe been identified? If so where is it? |
30-10-2007, 08:15 AM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: St Helens
Posts: 30
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birchy The big bang!!! everyone is taking about it but who came up with the idea that there was such an event? I mean it's just an idea or theaory that someone has thourght of isn't it? And everyone just seems to accept that it's it. The big bang was the start of the universe. was it? | At first it was a theory in the common sense of the word. The conventional accepted theory being that the Universe is static and perhaps eternal. Later though, experiments provided evidence for the Big Bang and we now know the Universe is expanding and is not static. Quote:
Billions of years ago!!!!!!!!!. Do we really have any idea what happened. The fact that there was nothing before the big bang is mind blowing. So there was no time, matter, anything. I am thick really about all of this stuff and I started this thread but to say there was just nothing is silly. Then answer this. WHERE DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COME FROM, IF THERE WAS NOTHING TO START WITH WHERE DID IT COME FROM?. There must have been something there from the start to make the big bang.
Sorry for being so contriversal but what I am talking about makes sense to me. If there's nothing there then nothing can start. There was a therory that the universe has a cycle, like anything. It started then one day it will end and then it will all start again. That makes more sense to me.
| I believe that God created the Universe. Sometimes people ask 'but who made God?' but this is a red herring. If God is Eternal and outside Time, there is no cause and effect and the question is based on the assumption of cause and effect.
Another explanation is Big Bang / Big Crunch. This is the idea that before this present Universe, there was another one which had expanded then contracted then expanded again in infinitum. If this is true then the current Universe will one day reach a size where the force of gravity will be stronger than the forces of expansion and it will shrink. The Universe could do this, or it could reach a point of balance and stay a certain size, or it could expand forever.  |
30-10-2007, 08:24 AM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Wetherby, West Yorkshire
Posts: 127
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinaMarieUK I believe that God created the Universe. Sometimes people ask 'but who made God?' but this is a red herring. If God is Eternal and outside Time, there is no cause and effect and the question is based on the assumption of cause and effect. | I believe man made god to explain the universe. We know considerably more than our ancestors, yet as far as I understand it they were no less intelligent, simply ignorant. Man invents make belief characters to explain things away. Take the tooth fairy - we tell kiddies about the tooth fairy, they believe, until their ignorance is relieved. It's man's way of coping with the infinite. |
30-10-2007, 09:07 AM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nr Southampton
Posts: 62
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnb Well as in any material rather than a vacuum there will be the phenomenon of dispersion (the same phenomenon which gives rise to spectra in a prism). Then the dispersion is a function of wavelength and so the speed of light in a medium is a function of its frequency and thus energy. So by that measure as 'dark' is presumably lower energy than light then yes it will have a different speed. | Dark is about intensity, not wavelength - the speed of fewer photons will be the same as the speed of many photons. However if you are talking about standing waves, or interference effects, these can make the appearance of nodes or dark patches move at different speeds.
Last edited by Strontium; 30-10-2007 at 09:10 AM.
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30-10-2007, 11:06 AM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Cheshire
Posts: 147
| | | Re: Does Space really go on forever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinaMarieUK If the Universe is continually expanding, then what it is expanding into is nothing. In other words, space is being continually created. IMO.
If the Universe goes on forever, then the Universe must be everlasting. This would mean our night sky would be full of light from the stars and galaxies etc. There would be no darkness between the stars and galaxies from our vantage point.
I'm pretty sure that according to astrophysics that if someone was to travel into space towards the edge of the Universe, they would end up back where they started | | |
