john / richard
do you know of anywhere that i could get within camera shot (ie 500mm lens and 2xtc) of black grouse without disturbing them - and also from your greater birdwatching knowledge is getting to the site under the cover of darness then laying up in a scrape hide with a camnet over you a viable approach or would this still be likely to disturb them ?
I would really like to get some decent (and salable

) shots but not at the price of disturbing a red data book species as the welfare of the subject is always the highest law.