Yes perhaps i could, but i would no longer be a cat lover if i did that, a cat is its own master, jim could not see that, i do under stand the frustration of non cat owners and would change things if possible, i do not have fall outs with my neighbors over my one cat that goes walkabout's, they have been long term neighbors perhaps this is it, i help them they help me, i was hoping to make my peace with the people i upset by standing up for cat owners, this thread as brought out the worst in people including me, sorry to all concerned, aland,