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Originally Posted by Swallowtail  I am sorry if you think this is an inapproprate thread. If moderators wish to move it they can but this is a VERY IMPORTANT CONSERVATION ISSUE.
It doesn't just relate to ragwort it relates to the harm being done to all wildflowers in fields,verges and uncultivated land due to ignorance caused by hysteria and unscientific thinking. Do you think the gangs of people sent out to clear verges in the false belief that ragwort can spread easily can tell it from other plants?
I am sorry but I don't think that you understand what I am saying.
Firstly Ragwort poisoning is rare. Ignore the propaganda and look at the peer reviewed data. So rare that you can probably count the annual cases on your fingers and if you look again at the peer reviewed data it is caused generally by neglect. Your legal arguments are, looking at the peer reviewed data, spurious. The risk of anyone being able to prove that ragwort spread onto their land ( It does not spread quickly. Ignore the propaganda look at the science. ) and then causing the incredibly rare event of poisoning is so minute as to be irrelevant. Even small quantities in hay are probably not a problem.
I used the example of Equine Grass Sickness to illustrate a point you seem to have missed. It is associated with horses eating grass. The published data show that it is COMMONER than ragwort poisoning. Therefore grass is actually more dangerous statistically. I know this may seem strange but it is true from the published data because ragwort is that rare a problem.
I am puzzled why you should seem to think that conservation grazing could be done always by sheep. Sheep are frequently not appropriate.
A number of conservation charities , including Buglife are working hard to undo the damage being done by ignorance on this issue. It would be a pity if the charity running this site would be allowed to undermine this valueable work. Please before you use these charitable facilities, check the science.
Please stop talking up these minute risks into a massive problem. |
a) you still arent understanding the point - I'm a conservation proffesional and I know that incidenceas of ragwort poisoning are very rare (I also heard you the first time). However meadow/grassland restoration programmes run by wildlife trusts are frequently dependent on the income derived from selling the hay and renting the grazing so what matters in not what i know but what the customers think , and i know from experience that it is very hard to sell hay with ragwort in it and even harder to rent grazing that has a lot of ragwort. Lose this income and their wont be any grassland restoration on these sites
b) Yes wildlife trust volunteers can tell the difference between ragwort and orther plants - its pretty distinctive and anyway training is provided. Dave is a very knowledgeable poster and can definitely tell the difference.
c) I dont speak for the site/charity I'm just another poster but imo WAB arent undermining anything just encouraging an exchange of views
d) Aftermath grazing (ie the grazing that is done after the hay cut) , is nearly always done with sheep, usually at a low headage rate. Other conservation grazing may be done with horses (though usually dartmoor ponies which are much more robust that your standard equine), goats, porgs, or cattle depending on the environment and need
and finally
e) yes this is an important issue (though possibly not as critical as you seem to think it is) but the place to discuss it is on a thread about ragwort not on a thread about what various wab members do to help wildlife, hence my request that the mods split this thread.